24toDouble Members Live Q&A – February 2018

24toDouble Members Questions asked:

  • Where do we start building? Do we put the leaders in place first? Build our teams first?
  • Everyone Communicates, Few Connect by John Maxwell
  • How do you instruct your 24toDouble members to invite? Do you provide them any tools for doing that?
  • As you’re growing, how do you do your follow-up and attendance properly so people don’t “fall through the cracks”?
  • Should I develop a 24toDouble members leadership team just to go through the 24toDouble members materials with me and help implement it?
  • How do you determine the results off the Gifts and Passions Profile?
  • We are fast approaching Easter, but we don’t have the teams in place. How do we make the most of this time?
  • We are having parking lot issues due to space. What do you recommend?
  • Do you teach the same thing at every Pastor’s Breakfast?
  • Do you have onsite training at Daystar?

 

Transcript +

[00:00:02] This is Richard. He was 24 to double and I've always I've got my partner Pastor Jerry Lawson with me today and we're going to do something a little bit different to kickstart things today. We're going to we're going to reminisce a little bit. Aegerion I've actually didn't do it. Partnering together on 24 December for almost exactly five years now. I happened to look at the numbers earlier this week when I was shooting a livestream and we partnered with twenty one hundred ninety eight pastors as of Monday. Now we've also partnered with 20 more pastors this week because we've had quite a week of pastors joining so that's quite a few pastors so I thought I would just get Jerry to spend a couple of minutes just talking about what we've learned over the last five years. So Gary thanks for being with us and you can do it. Oh. Before he does though store 6 on your phone will get you into the queue. It's open now for your questions. We've already got a couple people in there. So Jerry take it away.

[00:00:57] Yeah well happy anniversary Richard. I didn't know that our anniversary fell so close to Valentine's Day. That's a little bit creepy but remove all the hate. He didn't me many flowers anybody's wondering that. But yeah man I've learned so much and learned a lot about Richard. How committed Richard is to pastors that he does. He did not want to just create a cool delivery platform and get his name out there but he really cares about pastors. And I already knew that about me. But I've come to know that about Richard and Jessica and everybody is working around Richard is just passionate about helping pastors. I have really learned that almost every pastor believes and knows that he can do more he can be more he can reach more people he can accomplish what God called him to do. Even on a bigger scale than he is right now. I just I just have learned a lot about pastors and especially 24 devil pastors because you know this is not a an easy one week program or you know 90 day purpose. You know like I say 40 days of purpose which is a really cool thing. This is much much deeper than that. And the pastors who do this you know they're not trying to get a momentary bump in mere attendance or not trying to be the trendiest church in town. They are literally trying to establish something that builds a long lasting change. And the word that comes to my mind is legacy. These are these are legacy pastors who are saying no we don't want this town to be the same.

[00:02:39] Fifty years after I lived in it we don't want this church to be the same. You know ten years from now even five years from now and they're in it for the long haul and you know that that's super cool. Maybe one well I'll get one more thing I want to say Richard maybe you won't speak about the pastors. You want to jump in.

[00:02:58] Yeah. Oh yeah. You know first of all thanks for the kind words Jerry and also to thank for you know five years ago a friend of mine introduced me to Jerry. They didn't know who I was.

[00:03:09] And we went on to partnering on this thing. Not only did they not know who I was. I did not know what I was doing the first year asked. I remember six months we that 17 pastors and 24 to double and I kept thinking man it cannot be this difficult. And then once we kind of figured out hey this is a life lesson probably the big change happened when I was praying about God what do I do. And he said stop doing any consulting which was how I was making money and eat and Reagan endorsed Baghdad and I remember praying and God saying no more consulting and I remember laughing out loud when he said that but I stopped and really got focused on this 24 to terrible things. Two months later we had like a hundred little over 100 churches and two months later and I didn't feel like I was doing anything differently. But I will say this about you. Pastors the guys and the men and women listened to this. I just did ten things that I've learned from this and a lot from a couple days ago. We don't get the pastors where everything is go and well and they're thriving. That's probably about five to 10 percent of you they come into 24 to level when pastors come in at 24 to double. They're looking for a lifeline. And a lot of cases things have been stagnant or even in decline for a period of time.

[00:04:22] So when pastors are coming in and we're getting them in a process that where they need some healing and they need a solid plan and that has been the big lesson for me is the thing I'm learning right now in my whole life is sometimes sometimes things aren't exactly broken but they're not working and you've got to break them to make them work. And that is what I've seen pastors do in 2014. So yeah finish up here and then we'll jump into some questions.

[00:04:52] Yeah that is so good that that things are things are not exactly broken. Sometimes we don't think they're broken and they are because a slow gradual decline doesn't get our attention it's a little bit like the frog in the kettle illustration that it is getting hotter and hotter around us but we don't notice it till it takes us under. That's super cool. Here's here's what else I've learned is that pastors tend to overestimate what can be done in the short haul and underestimate what can be done in the long haul. And so many times they will just kind of get discouraged and even bail. We've had a lot of pastors those almost 22 hundred that you mentioned that have been on board with this a lot of those guys have checked out early and you know they underestimate what can happen if you're persistent and if you just stick with it and you just stay there you know we don't. 24 was not a flash in the pan type of process. It is a you know CVN and head towards it for a long time process. And I've learned that a lot of pastors that they don't have the capacity to do that. They want it so fast that they check out. So I'm glad you guys the guys that have been successful have been the ones that are on these calls. They're the guys who stick with the process. They listen to the training the pastor himself is there a lot of times he tries to outsource this to some leader in the church. It doesn't work well.

[00:06:16] It really has to be something that that you see that you're really bought into. You have to be humble about it. You know I was just passing by church recently that met with us before we even met you Richard about doing 24 to double and you know we were a newer church and they were very very established church we were in the growth mode. They were in decline mode and the end of the day the pastor and executive pastor just told me hey you know we can't do this because you know we can't be seen as learning from a younger church that is you know smaller or has a history of being smaller than our church. And you know my wife and I were driving around and passed by that church and they have declined since then by a lot of people I can't tell how many we have grown by about fifteen hundred people since that conversation and it all goes to pride. Just his an ability or unwillingness to just swallow his pride and say I don't have to know everything you know. And I can learn from someone else so I don't know. There are a lot of lessons. Those are some that really stick out to Yeah I think that's huge too Jerry.

[00:07:21] One of the big lessons I've learned taking this message out to the world is I'm 46. I was what 41 when we started this process I quickly realized there's only maybe one person Michael Hyatt. It is older than me that's doing what I do. So I have to humble myself to God that meant for me in this in this part of the ministry I was taking the message out there eight 10 15 years younger than me. And I'll tell you my last job was building churches and I built six churches front to back. I was in hundreds of churches. There was not a single church that I worked with that I talked to that was getting ready to build where the pastor was older than me and I left there when I was 41. So so I say all that to say the best is maybe not coming out of your church. They may not come out of the church as a 100 years old they might be coming out of the church it's five years old and they're definitely coming out of churches that are engaged in things like 24 to double OK let's let's jump in. We've already got quite a few people in the queue again to get in the queue. It's Star 6 and if hijacked which happens often I apologize. You just hit store six and get back in and let's go with the first question here.

[00:08:38] Hello this is wrong Chen's calling you from verdot Arkansas Tehran. Can you hear me. Yeah we got you. OK listen. Well I mean it's kind of a unique question because our ministry is a little bit different we work with people struggling with drugs and alcohol and it's a recovery ministry and we have transitional living and and we're growing and we've got a unique situation here a great location stop and we're also part of another charge called Harvest assembly that's kind of our are covering us has got us had a real unique situation here. It was kind of a question in a nutshell. We've got made we're really teaching on the gifts and I've really started to try to get people plugged in that we don't all spurtle gifting testing. So we're excited about that was kind of off to a slow start. Got a really good unique leadership team they're all young and coming up in the ranks if you will whatever. But here's my question I feel like I'm rambling here. Mike is this is really Isaac I've got Isaac in the office with me. The one that the ad administrator and helps me in. So what we're trying to determine is how do we start on building. Do we start out that the 18 category. Or should we pray and try to get all these leaders in place. The fivefold leadership well you know I guess that question makes sense. We're trying to develop it.

[00:10:16] Yeah it does run and I think I can speak to that. We actually went to our campuses when our days our campuses sponsors a drug rehab ministry we have a lot of people in recovery that are leading. And so the word for me is transitional. You know they're in a transition. So we make all of these positions transitional and we say to people hey can you help me out in this area. You know we're we're doing some new things we're figuring some things out we're transitioning I think I need you to step into this role for a period of time and you know just a test period and during that transition can you help me out. Now what that does Ron it gives you an easy out. If you find hey this is not the right person or this is not the right position. You can easily go back to them and say Hey thanks for that so much. We're going to do. We're going to continue this transition and ask you to step in this area which might be a step back or whatever but you kind of preplanned it that way and then it gives you maximum freedom. Of course you can come back later and say hey you're just knocking it out of the park doing so well. Can you just stick with what you're doing. It's been amazing. And so what I like to start with is like call the coalition of the willing. And those are willing people who will jump on whatever we're jumping on as a team.

[00:11:37] So if we're in Module 1 and we're talking about establishing the vision of our church then that coalition of people that are on board with the think tank they are the people that are helping me bounce ideas off. You know we're moving on to outreach team first impressions or whatever then I get those people in those roles and I do like to try to fill out that top line the five fold across the top. But again you know it's very important to tell those people how you're not a prophet you're not an apostle. I'm not trying to you know dub you something you go out and print business cards and now year old TB and next week. I just want you to hold this spot for me for now. And help me as we figure out. And you know as they grow into it they may be the person for that spot but tread lightly early on for sure. It makes sense Ron.

[00:12:28] It does. Thank you very much because really I mean one of the risk is we start putting people in positions of a couple of different things going and it goes their heads then we set them up for failure you're really that's one thing and then I don't want to hurt other people's feelings because we've picked somebody you know what I mean.

[00:12:44] Right. Right. And that's why you just let everybody know hey this is a work in progress. It's traditional and the other thing too is be very be very intentional about teaching them a spiritual gifts by the way Richard might want to tell you about I might be jumping the gun but we are adding a sermon resource option out there that's going to be amazing. I just did an amazing spiritual gifts series that my church loved just love it. And that kind of training we've got. In fact it was crazy. I actually went on the 24th to bubble Web site and pulled some of those resources that I wrote you know to build this new teaching series on The Spirit spiritual gifts so that those resources are on the side but you need to teach those gifts to your team so that no one feels like that the leadership gifts like the person who's the leader is more spiritual or better or something but people understand. It's a role that it's built to your strength not to whether you're more important or like you more or you're more dedicated it has nothing to do with that.

[00:13:55] It's just your administratively gifted you know in the prophetic role as the person in the prayer leader has a prophetic gifting. So that really cuts down on the whole position. I want to be in this position I want to be in that position you know basically their answers to that spiritual gift assessment tells you where they go. You're not picking where they go. Their answers tell.

[00:14:18] That's awesome and that you can farm because on Thursday nights that's all we're doing is spiritual. We're teaching on the gifts and then we're going to break into a group then and all that and we've been using those resources. So there's more resources we absolutely are interested in. And I think I have a question for you. Thank you so much for doing this and taking your time. This is really just encourage us in this change in our home minister it's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Faster.

[00:14:46] Hi this is Isaac. So I was just thinking like the first step on that team zero. The fivefold haven't some real transitional but the people there to fill those out before you start filling out the things underneath that. Is that what you're saying.

[00:15:07] Yes. That's going to be better because you know you want to you want to find someone that can kind of mentor them. You know the person you say is your your first impressions are your wild teams prayer leader. What does that look like. Well there should be a prayer leader for the church that can mentor him or her. So yeah you want to find your strongest people and by the way now when you first roll this out you're taught your top line people are going to also be down in the org chart somewhere else. So they're going to you know your prayer leader over the whole church might also be the prayer leader over worship ministry and maybe small groups. So when you first roll this out you're going to probably see several people in two or three blocks and then obviously raise up people underneath them to fill their positions.

[00:15:55] Awesome. Thank you very much. I think that's all the questions ahead.

[00:16:02] Let's jump to the next one. I'll talk about the sermons spending later if we got to.

[00:16:06] It is just in my again. One person here. Yeah I want to thank you guys.

[00:16:15] And I've seen that with you Richard and especially with you Jerry not seeing you personally. Probably really seemed to be a more approachable Pastor which I think is a wonderful thing and something I need to develop more on more administrative and time just to work on and you know what I mean. Yeah I have a couple. Let me give you a resource.

[00:16:35] John I know you got a question to ask but I'm I'm doing a small group right now with all my Daystar college students. And it's the John actual book called everyone communicates but few connect. And he really teaches step by step practices to help you connect to be an intentional connector so that you know there are some people who just naturally do it they just connect naturally. And then there are others that have to work at it. And if you're one of those and has to work at it get that book because it's gets very practical and some things you can do to be a better connector for me for.

[00:17:13] And I said well I shake their hand at that. What more do they want.

[00:17:19] Well you know you can Google here. Number

[00:17:24] one we're doing it. We're almost 2 years now doing this. We're doing Easter. We have two big day will do the big day on Palm Sunday and Easter with both the special events kids and and by some adults as well. Have you instruct your people as far as inviting and what do you have any tools that you give them. That's one question.

[00:17:51] OK so let me say this about two big events back to back now. That is really ingenious. That's something you don't hear anybody else teach anywhere in the program for churches to do back to back big events. Now it's an art because if you what they would all say is what you can't do to back to back because you split the focus and you know the focus kind of gets mixed up. Well what you have to do is you have to pick a church focus that is over the top and then you have an underground focus that is different. Let me give you how we do this. They are so we have a big candlelight Christmas event this Sunday around Christmas. OK. Sometimes you might move to Saturday and Sunday or whatever but it's right around that Christmas weekend but this Sunday. Now that's the big thing that's the to your question John. So we're going to we're going to Facebook invite like crazy. You know we're going to spend money on facebook invites. We're going to put cards invite cards in people's hands with regularity we change up how that happens for Mother's Day. We might literally hand out Mother's Day cards to moms and have them sign and address the cards give them back to us and we will mailed before we that's our gift to you for one year we did a series called nameless. Where did this actually last year I think leading into Easter I talked about all the incredible stories in the Bible from nameless people you don't even know their name.

[00:19:25] You know the one with the issue of blood name you know nameless people like that John for you know the woman at the well. All these stories and then we concluded with preaching on Easter from the standpoint of the thief on the cross. And so as we're building we're talking about how important everybody is to God and the people that you know have the wrong name or feel like they've been called that divorced won or you know whatever the liar the guy who's on unemployment or the sick one or whatever. So we gave out and buy cards that said hey the world has a name for you but God calls you and we left a blank and we end the worship service had people write down we said we took a prayer a moment and said hey God is going to speak to you in this prayer moment. I want you to pray and write down the name that that God gave you maybe God calls he blessed are God called you special or I'll call you important or God calls you his child.

[00:20:25] And so we added some emphasis and we said hey when you go home that card you remember god gave you that word and he's going to give you the person behind it too. So so that's how we do. The big event like we're we're giving out car hey we're going to chalk everybody's car everybody's windshield will be chalked with Easter. They start with the service time so we'll literally have hundreds of cars driving all around the community that moving build what we've got. I mean I could talk all day about the different things who put a giant pig on the top of a moving truck one time and said you know put a sign on it that said sure I'll come to Star when pigs fly. And we had like a cape on this pig and he was flying all around town to the mix too. I mean we've done everything you could imagine.

[00:21:07] But the two big event things now guys you got to pay close attention to be checking your e-mail or whatever you're not going to track with me. The two big events back back what you have to do like for us say at Christmas time will have a big event that only affects a certain number of people like the children's ministry to let children seeing to saw to christmas songs. We're still going to do our full service but to two Christmas songs and so underneath we're not promoting that we're not making it a big deal but we're promoting it sort of under the surface to parents grandparents teachers all the people of the kids. And so what we know is we're not going to double our attendance on that on that day but we are going to use that day to promote the next Sunday so when they get there we say Hey thank you for coming out to see the kids sing blah blah blah. Let me tell you what's happening next Sunday. You can't miss this deal. And so that's kind of the idea behind the two big events in a row. You know the first one is not quite as big the second one is over the top now for Easter what will it we'll just do a Palm Sunday communion event because we don't do communion every Sunday we're a very eclectic church so people from all different backgrounds. And so we will make a big deal we call it holy communion weekend or sometimes even do a little play or something to go get to go with it.

[00:22:32] But again that kind of bumps the attendance and then we push like crazy. You have got to be back next week. So listen I answered one question and I've covered about five other things but I felt like they all connected there.

[00:22:45] So yes when you think John when I was young and wrestling with right now church management systems to help us as you grow. How do you do your follow up and your attendance properly without especially attendance. You know we are when we were a hundred. You know we're counting everybody in particular names but as you grow understandably thousands. How do you compensate. And what did you do so that people didn't necessarily fall through the cracks like that system.

[00:23:19] Yes. So what we do once you get over 500 or so it becomes a little bit difficult to not to to make sure you're not missing people and so we do a car count as well as the head count for maybe three months and we establish within that quarter of the year that you know one car means about two point three people for our church in the spring because it's different in the summer.

[00:23:50] Actually the number of people in a car tends to go up in the summer because people have less responsibilities. They all ride together.

[00:23:58] You know the number of people in a car on Easter is huge. Mother's Day huge Christmas huge because these are kind of holidays where everybody gets together. So if you really study it don't just go out and pull the number off of the internet but if you really study the attendance of your people and you compare the car count to the head count then you can more easily get an accurate number also the car count using a multiplier because there's no those cars are moving around they're not going up going to the bathroom.

[00:24:31] You know what do you use to groups in your church church teens groups federa more or less try to figure out who missed how long.

[00:24:42] As far as I know there are several ways we can find out who missed. Our database will run a stop giving report. So these are people who gave regularly and then they didn't give at all for six months or six weeks. So that shows up on report. We haven't stopped check in report. So they check their kid in regularly all of a sudden the kids not checked in for probably like three weeks only check in. We have a. You were in the small group last semester but you weren't in a small group this semester.

[00:25:12] We have mine. Oh you started the. Oh you were checking in as a volunteer. Now you're not checking in as a volunteer. So we trained our team to monitor those numbers and to follow up. And it's very very critical that you do good training and you're very careful about who gets the follow up because you can really offend someone in that way you follow up by saying something like Hey I haven't been seeing you lately just kind of had your heart. Are you guys doing OK. How's everything happening. You know in that regard they say Hey man thank you for that. Now we're in this crazy club thing and my daughter plays softball and we're having to be gone every week. But hey thanks for noticing. You know as opposed to a more balanced approach that could be offensive.

[00:26:05] And one last question I'll go off. How has Prejean changed since you began. I noticed me now more I'm noticing I have changed to be more what I am and what I used to be. So what did you notice by yourself as you put the principles in place and actually saw the targeting what you wanted and how did that affect your preteen style change. Thanks so much.

[00:26:34] Thank you for that John and that is a fantastic question Richard we could do a whole web NRO map but I'll try to hit the high points just briefly but you know I become much more intentional. I used to preach to the choir you know the old phrase preaching to the choir we don't have a choir but you know the key people I kind of preach to them which I learned is kind of ridiculous because there are saved as Billy Graham you know. So I started really preaching to the last people and said that we're going to nurture church members and saved people through small groups and leadership opportunities. But on the weekend we're going to throw a big net outside really focused on that. I preach a lot shorter than I used to. I preached this past Sunday 29 minutes. That was my exact sermon. 29 minutes. I used to preach 45 and then went to 40 and then went to 35 and it's usually around 30 to 35 now because people just they're just not conditioned to sit and listen to the same thing. Not some of you right now bored with me. You know it's just you're not you're not conditioned to that. So a lot of things. The main thing is just remain pliable fine people and I don't mean to sound the wrong way but you guys really ought to be part that every one of my sermons and others find someone who is kind of going in the direction you're trying to go and just listen to what you're doing.

[00:27:59] You know if you want to learn how to be better in social media you all follow my social media see what I'm doing and others not just me but that really is more than just picking two or three things you ought to change. I would just say be change a ball and then you know pay attention to what other guys are doing. I'll try to be a chameleon. I'll try to mimic anyone but think through why they're doing what they're doing and see if that informs some change that you can make in your content.

[00:28:30] That's good stuff to hear. Hey let me let me just a couple of numbers in there too because of some of this conversation there a couple of things John said. The national average for the number of people per course and I know this because I've built churches is between one point eight and two point one people per core. And you got to know that when you're building parking lots for churches because code in most cities will be you will say you've got to have one space for every four people. It's not true and with church. So when you're counting parts you need. If you do it long enough you realize OK we're more towards that one point eight people per car so you got 100 cars you know you've got 180 people there. The other thing I would say Jerry and maybe you can speak to this a little bit is why are you measuring so specifically what metrics are you going to measure and make sure that you're keeping those the same way I do this the time 24 that I have four things that I measure and they were very very specific things and I measure in the same way. The question is why are you measuring. Are you measuring to validate a new idea and how that brings people into your church and keeps them. Or is this something you're using to measure your identity. And because the latter is not worth doing.

[00:29:41] But the former is worth doing the stuff that we're telling you to put in place if you don't measure. You're just going to you're not going to know what's working and what's not working. Can you. Can you speak to that a little bit.

[00:29:51] Yeah I think you're really right in finding out what matters to you and measuring those things. You know so. So for us we said that we really discipleship and growth really happens in groups and so we measure groups where we measure. We want to know how many people led a group because those disciples that are you know wonder how many people attended a group I know how many people are in a growth track owner and know how many people are serving. I want to know how people are giving and I want to know how they are showing up on the weekends. Those sound like I don't know like school board type numbers because I want to have a bigger school board than someone else but we have specifically said those are the marks of a disciple. You know they're not just living for themselves that generous with their time talent treasures you know they've got a habit of growing among other people. Real life change happens in groups not on Sunday no inspiration happens on a Sunday but real life change happens in groups. So we have a reason for those and it's not to be in the top 100 fastest growing churches in America. OK. We've made that list but that's not what we're after. We're after discipleship truly making disciples. And that's why those numbers matter and you know we say every number represents a soul and souls matter to God. And it should matter because heaven and hell are real. And so as long as you see that then you're why is it good why.

[00:31:20] And so yes we talk about that a lot hey one more hat before we get to the next thing I'm sure you all know to the UK to a podcast you know that most podcast players you can listen at one and a half two times three times stede right.

[00:31:35] Same thing with alterable with books you can listen to him at three speed time speed. I will caution you if you've ever listen to me at three times speed it will ruin you for listening to me at regular speed Jestina. Let's go to the next question here. I think this is Penny.

[00:31:52] Sky to be a part of this. They were actually a Hermansen for my husband and son and I requested to be volunteers at the high school in the city where we started our ministry and with all reforms and got the cards from the states and we tried on many occasions during the last two years to volunteer and I have helped in the library classrooms. The husband and son will do some landscaping and mentoring while they were doing that and were told that it means that the we knew that wasn't the case. The city has great needs. Whether he is concerned that we were later told by an official in the city that this is a little touchy but we were not the right towers to actually be accepted and out of those situations.

[00:32:45] Yeah you know immediate. Well let me ask you this what were where are you located.

[00:32:51] I'm in Virginia.

[00:32:55] The immediate thought that comes to my mind is Jesus said you know if the world hates you hated me first. And so we're going to love anyway.

[00:33:04] And we have found that too because we have been a church since we established 16 years ago that we are going to serve. We're going to get in there and we're going to serve. And so sometimes we just serve without asking. You know they just they just come in and the leaves have been raked or you know something looks better. And we have found that certain groups are not really open to us. We had certain schools that were not open to us. I remember called the name of the school one school the school that is very close to us would not let us serve. You know they just had some administration and people in administration that didn't like our church for whatever reason. There was another church not far from us that their funding ran out for an outdoor kind of like an outdoor garden with a water feature or whatever their funding ran out of funding. So we came in with one one or two of our small groups raised a little bit of money. We did all that work and made this beautiful place. Well you know lo and behold the newspaper picked up the story and they showed pictures of it and all of a sudden they've got something at this school that the other school doesn't have and so that same school that wouldn't let us or you know we're and we're serving right now in that school. We went in and remodeled redesigned the whole theme inside the building. We took our volunteers. We repainted the hallways and you know get some artsy people who redesigned it.

[00:34:33] And literally I've been asked to speak upspeak every month now to the teachers I spoke to an assembly of the entire student body on the first day of class. Now another school in the county asked us would we come redesign their hallway. I'm saying all that say it takes a lot of determination and you know there's been a lot of doors slammed in our face. There really has. But there's we've always found someone who is willing to take our help. Now I was talking to a 24 year old pastor who said they were having a hard time. And he he went to he and a couple of men from his church went to the high school football team and said hey we don't want to be the chaplain. We don't want to share devotions. We just want to carry out the equipment. You know you got to have tackling dummies. You've got to have Gatorade can't be the water ball. I mean the heat said I'm a 48 year old Wonderboy you know and they did that for about two years. You know just just did that cleaned up the locker room and he told me he said man I was at a basketball game and the athletic director from the high school saw me take out my wallet to pay and he was collecting the gate and he said he said as long as I'm here you'll never just I just told me this last week. As long as I'm here you'll never pay anything. And you know he said that because they were in Newchurch with no real connection to community.

[00:35:59] They started just a couple of years ago at arm's length and no one wanted their help but when they just got down and I can't think of anything lower than clean up after Smellie high school football players. So when they did that they just slowly worked their way in and that's what I've seen work for a lot of our churches OK.

[00:36:21] Thank you I appreciate that.

[00:36:23] Yeah. Thanks for what you're doing.

[00:36:36] RICHARD Yeah go ahead. Hey this is Brett Sullivan I'm in Mobile Alabama. Hey Brad what's your church Living Word Church I'm going to be speaking at pathway church and destination church this weekend immobile.

[00:36:55] OK great. Pretty awesome kills Jerry. Well I pastor and I also travel minister as well so. But anyway we really appreciate you guys what you're doing and we signed up last fall. We've been kind of slow rolling it out and I've just been to my schedule as well. It just I'm trying to wrap my brain around everything so I can communicate it properly with the church. So I was going to ask people a couple of elementary questions. Sure they are not as with with the program but first of all as you know your suggestions past in terms of should about. I was thinking about maybe developing a leadership team that's just working with me going through the material and helping implement it.

[00:37:40] Your thoughts on that.

[00:37:42] Oh yeah absolutely. Absolutely. You know anything that people take ownership of they feel like you're not just cramming it down their throat. I heard.

[00:37:54] I wish I could remember the name but the quote is Oh I think Neil actually said this but he said you know when we when we trust others it gives us borrowing power into their skillset and into their circle of influence. So you know if you've got five people on the team you know whether they're called Team 24 or whatever you call them then instead of just your influence and your abilities. Now you've got you plus five. So I absolutely think that's the right idea but you have to have basically have started.

[00:38:31] How did you how did you I will ask let me ask you so should we just kind of start with like hey we're all going to watch the video together this month. Give me your ideas. What's what's the action plan for us to implement this. I mean what do you recommend on that.

[00:38:47] Well I would you know I would wrap my head around where we're ready to take the whole church you know begin with the end in mind and then maybe get your leadership team out just ahead of it and maybe they're a month ahead. It's just kind of different in each in each environment. So it's kind of hard for me just in a in a quick today to answer that question. But what the process does work best when you are taking it one month at a time whether that's showing it to the whole church or sharing the media with your leadership team that that's the best because it it it does it does slowly and methodically roll it out so that you can take bite sized pieces of it.

[00:39:35] OK. So have them actively engaged in every month in the video sessions and those kind of things.

[00:39:42] Yeah you know in the first year you'll find that it is all breaking new ground and you really need everyone there. But in the second year you don't have to. By the time you're doing the second year your leadership team should have grown. And you don't necessarily need everyone at every session you know and that's why you can get out in front of it and listen and know you know what is that. Who is this pertaining to. At first everybody's on every take. You know you're just trying to build a framework year to really start to populate people on what we call sort of a permanent basis like no we know this is your gift. And this is your passion. You're one. You may not be passionate about this certain area but we need you you know to help us get it started. And so everybody's on board. One in every session year two. You don't have to have everybody in it every session.

[00:40:33] It makes sense so. So we should like you you think maybe just invite the whole congregations. Many of them will come with us from the videos each month and give tests everybody right there on the first No.

[00:40:48] I wouldn't get tested that early. I would give maybe my leadership team your team leaders that you're going to say to them sort of in a in a in a closed door setting guys we're going to be the skeleton that gets this thing started with a coalition of the willing. But but yes we want everybody watching videos and they'll come to you. They'll come to you and they'll say Hey man I want to win can I give tests and I want to do this thing. You kind of know when it's time. But you don't want to get past everyone immediately because then what do I do with my gift. Ok so I'm I'm I'm a helper. I have the gift of helps or you know I have the mercy gift and I'm passionate about children's ministry. What do I now do. If you can answer that question you don't have a framework in place. You know it really helps feed them into not feeding them into this the old antiquated leadership structure. But ready to feed them into the new 24 to bubble structure then that's going to be a mess. So you want to wait until you've got pieces of this thing in order. You know the first impression staying fully in order you're ready to put people in at the minute. The Prime Minister team or the worship minister team is fully in order and you can start populating those teams with your volunteers. But here's how I know this. You know I was first 24 to tell church and it didn't exist what we were doing as I did this.

[00:42:13] I got so excited I preached a whole series of past. I did it on Sunday morning passed out the cast everybody came back next week to find out what their gift was. And then me in the lobby like hey what I'd do with this and I went oh crap what did they do with it. You know so we don't don't make my mistake. Get your structure in place before you start gift testing everyone OK.

[00:42:37] So your recommendation is just from ingathering start your first impressions and then follow up those are some of the early teens that you would you recommend rolling out first.

[00:42:52] Yeah we like to do what we what we say. Getting the low hanging fruit in time any time you change some things. There's going to be some negative pushback. And the answer to that negative pushback needs to be hey look at the progress look at the new people. So the things that are very noticeable are first impressions because they. So front loaded if you just to go straight through the system as we've laid it out we have front loaded the low hanging fruit so that you gain momentum we could have just let this thing out. Team One is not one team to his. But we didn't do that. We laid it out in a way that front loads. A lot of the boom so a lot of people will say hey we doubled our attendance in six months and I said you've got to keep it going because you know that that low hanging fruit. You know if you don't have a good structure in place long term then you know you'll lose those numbers and so that's why it's designed the way it is.

[00:43:48] OK. I noticed like you and you talked about in the breakfast and gift testing like the visitors that come back that just for the purpose of encouraging them to Hank says well you know now this is again if you begin with the end of what you think is all right.

[00:44:09] By the time I've got a fully functioning church leadership structure all of our teams are in place. I've got people serving in their area of passion and gifting them when a first time guest walks through the doors. They can literally come back next week and they can on ramp into ministry. Now if you start that be four you've got a structure in place that's going to be problematic.

[00:44:35] Does that make sense. You said one more time. I apologize.

[00:44:39] Yes. So if you if you start if if a visitor comes back next week and takes a year to give tests and they will on ramp right into a ministry team that's great as long as you've got the team structure in place but if you start doing that before the team structures in place that's pretty much one of the ways that we recommend gaining traction with the pastors breakfast as well as with the whole leadership structure is the first people to go to pastors breakfast ought to be your members. Because because they they're forgiving if you don't have it all right you know they understand. Another thing is when you start doing this pastors breakfast you will have members who complain hey I never got a free breakfast what's going you know it's crazy but I've done it long enough to know someone will say that. So I like to say maybe organize a structure where you can run your whole membership through pastors breakfasts. So they get the free meal they get to hear the vision of the church and it pushes them because you've got 50 60 70 percent of your church you don't do a thing. They don't they don't serve in any capacity. And pastors breakfast is designed to onramp you into ministry. So that's that's a good way to start all of this is plan on running people inviting. Not everybody wants but in a structured approach inviting all of your membership to the pastors breakfast.

[00:46:04] So maybe have a team or two in place first before you launched the pastors breakfast and then you have the onramp you're saying yeah that's right.

[00:46:12] You don't have the structure in place. Maybe you've got leaders over everything but you don't have the whole team structure put together yet. So you know as people come through they're going to tell you what they're passionate about and that may not be passionate about the two things that you've get ready to go. So I would make sure I've got some leadership in all teams. If you can you know it's no crime to say Hey thanks for your interest in this area. We currently don't have this team in place but I'd love to talk to you about helping to get it started you know so you know it is it is a huge IT TAKES leader takes you being creative and being a leader because there's a million scenarios of how this thing could roll out.

[00:46:54] OK. And my last question first injury. Again I'm a pastor's son myself and my dad deadening past.

[00:47:02] Well. Reading to get to you know just kind of deciding to get tests. So what do you like. I just get tested myself. So you know we're looking at the highest numbers on the grid to be able to give a person an accurate reading if they can't they come to your questions. You know Sarkisyan elementary question I just wanted to be able to read The Gift test properly myself to be able to show somebody else how to do it.

[00:47:37] Yes. So we say that really you're your highest number in maybe even your highest two numbers might be some areas that you would find good for yourself to Serbian. So if you come back really high as a teacher or you come back really high prophecy either of those areas could be really strong for you you might have a 16 and teaching in the fifth thing and prophecy so you might be a trainer on the ministry team or you might be a prayer leader on the ministry team. So either one of those and hey we tell them too that this spiritual gift is not the gospel it's not the end all be all. First of all because people don't answer it honestly a lot of times they are unwilling to put a zero beside. I love to dig and search the Bible and not everybody to do that. But everybody's going to put it over there.

[00:48:27] So we try to get a little overly optimistic but I think the margins yes.

[00:48:37] If you don't like something to be honest and say you don't yeah because a lot of people will go through there and put three for everything you now because I don't want to say I hate it now. Not really don't love it. So we try to I say Mark 0 4 if you can and if you just have to go towards the middle go toward the middle and that gives them gives us a better more accurate. You don't want to. You don't really want a well rounded gif passed because most people really aren't well-rounded.

[00:49:06] So basically you're just looking at the highest numbers at the top. So individually I'm teaching in Korea where they scored the highest marks.

[00:49:15] That's right. The highest one or two and I encourage people to go back and take it again every year simply because at different seasons of your life different parts of your gift mix emerge as supreme. You don't change who you are and your gifts don't go away. But another part of your gift makes might become stronger at a different season of your life for instance there was a time where my gift my strongest gift was serving. And right now my strongest gift is administration. So it kind of changes not who you are but which one is in first place kind of changes over time.

[00:49:50] Yes. OK.

[00:49:52] So I'm just having to kind of we kind of started to launch it in the fall but I just didn't have my head around all the information as well and I'm kind of coming back to guide the relaunch and find a unique way to relaunch it. So you're saying start with the whole congregation but then from that develop the team around that that's going to help you implement it but start to get testing with your immediate team. And then kind of as your buildings start testing along the way.

[00:50:26] Yeah the good testing is a big excitement builder like people want to know what their gifts mean. And if you'll do some training preach it on Sunday. Do your sermon series about the functional gifts of Romans 12 and walk them through those gifts and say hey by the way we're going to structure our church the way they do in the New Testament we're going to build it around. People serving and they get to this. And if you'll come to these sessions once a month you can be a part of that. And so that's kind of a way to bake them into it. And you know slowly slowly build from there.

[00:51:07] Can Yesterday Bradley can't get so much hate dear. We've got four questions in about nine minutes left. Sebastian as you come on if you can just ask your best question so we can get everybody that would be super Hello this is an you know one from McEnery Illinois Lighthouse church.

[00:51:31] And it says hi. We subscribe to this actually a year ago. But I just was using it myself and just letting it change me. But God has so confirmed that this is the direction that we need to go that our elder board passed a resolution that we're going to do this for the next two years. We don't want to just talk about it we want to be committed to it. But we're six weeks out from Easter and I don't have any of the teens as you teach them in place. We're a small church just Sunday asking what would you advise me to do. As we're fast approaching approaching Easter.

[00:52:07] Yes great idea Neal. What I would do is I would jump to the small to the big event component and do everything I could do to make Easter a blow out event. You know once you hit Easter those are big numbers and you declined the church declined. Normally all the way until the fall. So make Easter so huge that you can look back to it as you start rolling out 2014 and you know through the end of spring and through summer and into fall you can look back and say Remember how big Easter was man. That was because we did these things.

[00:52:46] So I would jump ahead of you guys in six weeks you'd get plenty of time to grab a few of your leadership team watch the big events component together figure out what part of that you can do and just really try to blow out Easter bigger than it's ever been before and then use that momentum to push you through all of this training so that by the fall you guys roll if you go to go say you kick it off in March. I'm sorry in May. Then by fall I mean you've learned a lot of things you're ready to have another big event maybe a big friend day or something you're ready to roll out first impressions that maybe in August or September you know and all the people come back from school I think that's a really good plan to just try to have a big Easter and then and then start profit officially in in May.

[00:53:38] Maybe even a couple we might a lost him. The audio on him will tell you this.

[00:53:45] I looked at the syllabus and the big it is covered in modules 9 primarily in mine. And another big chunk of it is 16 a cap of that. OK. Next call I think this is Maurice Watson.

[00:54:00] Hey Jerry. Richard. This is Maurice Watson. I am pasturing no church about 60 years old has an extremely small parking lot seats about 400 parks about 60. And the problem is that all the buildings have grown up around this area. And what can I do in a situation like this. I know we went to multiple services the worst parking spot you can get and all that good stuff. That's my quick question with once again so I think Richard probably can answer this question better than I can.

[00:54:32] Richard you know I don't think you're going to like my answer.

[00:54:36] And that's why when you Yeah the first thing that popped in my word was not where to word parking deck but that's about ten grand a spot which is probably not going to be cost effective for you. You sure. Here's the bottom line.

[00:54:54] You've got to get more parking spaces. You've got to you've got to figure it out. You've got to partner with people that are around. If the space is built out you've got to figure out street parking if there's other businesses that will allow you to lease some parking from them. You've got people that can walk in if you can figure it out because at the end of the day that number I mentioned earlier one point eighty two point one let's just say that's two people the most people you're ever going to have on site at your church is 120. That means you got 60 spaces. And here's the thing everybody needs to hear this pastors. I used to talk to pastors all the time that were beating themselves down about their inability to grow a church and it was simple math. It wasn't the Holy Spirit. It wasn't that you weren't called in ministry. It was simple math that you got if you if you're 80 percent full you're not going to grow if you don't have if if you if you don't know your adult the kid ratio. Most churches the national average is about 30 kids per hundred adults. Well if you're if you're your student ministry and children's ministry on Sunday morning doesn't map out with those numbers meaning if you can't get 30 kids in there and you've got 100 adults you're not going to grow. And the big one is the parking lot. So the bottom line is it does not matter how big a sanctuary is always.

[00:56:08] I mean if you don't have the parking spaces if you've got 400 people I mean of 400 spaces in your church that really is 30 per 100 adults.

[00:56:17] That means 80 percent full year 360 people plus 30 that's 460 people on site at one time. That means you need 230 parking spaces for that sanctuary. That's really fast. So here's the thing. Sometimes when things sometimes it does they don't appear to be broken you've got to break them.

[00:56:37] This is something that the only way to break it is you got to decide that you're going to come up with more parking spaces and you know what to say in life because I think we have a problem. What would you get any more.

[00:56:50] We partner with some other churches actually in school and we're walking people burn and you know golf Cardiome here and things like that to the parking lot. Are our crowds as the river runs about three 356 just doing that. But now we're going mobile services again into trains and becoming more difficult. So you know we're beginning to get some feedback about parking you know complaints and so forth so we're trying to make that better for people who's attending.

[00:57:20] Well that is what you're not hearing is for people that circle through and leave and never come back.

[00:57:28] Yeah we had you got that we started putting our brains together and making it work.

[00:57:34] So that that parking lot got to be empty at like from 15 until service time until 15 minutes after service time. There needs to be multiple empty spots. A lot of empty spots in that parking lot. You know that you only have those 60 spots because your visitors don't know about your satellite parking though even if you've got volunteer that just kind of awkward. So even if you have to rent space or something. I'm with Richard. You've got to change something. But I also want to patch you on the back because if your if your attendance is approaching 400 and you've got 60 parking spots you are doing some really cool stuff brother and that's not going to work.

[00:58:16] We're going on since 2007 with you back a long time ago. Well and just now starting to kick out for us but it's really working very very well.

[00:58:27] That is awesome. That's awesome. Let's keep moving. Hey let me let me let me put two more things on there. First two things. And I needed you. Sorry about that because I want to get these last two. Hey talked to an architect about redesigning the parking lot that the one thing just you know maybe paint can change something you can maybe get 10 or 15 more parking spaces and then depending on where you are you might be able to park on the grass that would be worth checking the code and figure it out. And if that's the case then you've got to figure out if we're going to park people in the grass. How are we going to do that. Like what does that flow look like and I would get some smart people working on that. Oh sorry about that. I guess some smart people working on how you do that. OK let's keep let's keep moving here. I think this is Robert Baker.

[00:59:19] Yeah I think as I recall just my first showing of the video last March get ready to have it questions. I know some people would pass this test results for different teachings to try to get people back. Is that it just seemed like we saw a white teacher that you were just doing the same thing over and over again. Just curious what you did there. If you just teach the same thing every week.

[00:59:44] Yes. You know we do. We try to get the whole thing in in one week teach it so that you don't you know you don't you don't have any Sunday he is because you don't want to have any Sunday where you can't tell a visitor hey we want you back next Sunday. OK. And so that's why you need it every week. Now there is an application and I think we talk about it before you get. Two weeks where it doesn't matter if you go back to back you know so.

[01:00:12] So that there's there's two that you could take in either capacity you spiritually get past them in each of those. Each of those settings and they come back you know. So the first week opposite your church the reason to come back is Pastor brakeless the next week the reason to come back is to get my spirit to get past. So you know you can. You can adjust that somewhat. But the main key is you need to work toward a system where every single week there is a reason to come back next week if you're only doing it once a month or something like that. Then you know if I could if I came in on the second Sunday of the month I got to wait four weeks before there's nothing to come back to.

[01:00:57] So we wanted to have something every week. The other thing is to get onsite training where we can get trained. We have virtually for.

[01:01:09] A couple a couple of things we have. So you can you can come onsite to Daystar Church you can visit us and our team will host you know help you find hotels. They'll show you around. You just sit and talk and some people come to our weekend service. We also have some of our staff who do consulting and we have some just other 24 disabled churches that have just crushed it and they do consulting those pastors. You know we've got churches that have seen a tenfold growth. And that's not our church. But there are 24 to double all source. So what do we have those resources. Well I'm a little premature to roll that out because we don't have a system yet. But what you can do is I will connect you with I'll connect you with some people if you will shoot me an email and you guys can just shoot me an email. My name Jerry Lawson at Daystar Church not TV to me directly. And I'll just be a clearinghouse you tell me what you're looking for and I'll send you to the right consultant who could help you the best. Thanks so much. Yeah.

[01:02:15] Thanks for all you've got time for one more Gerri. Yes two more OK. Got I think this is long gone. They have already asked the question to hey I'm.

[01:02:25] This is my second time on here. This is Ronnie again from Birdal Arkansas. I was just wondering. Real quick were those spiritual gifting sermon outs that you mentioned. Where would we find those Richard that's probably a question.

[01:02:41] No I think he's talking about the sermon that you just preached. Jerry on the spiritual gas OK.

[01:02:46] So we've got two things. We've got the one was talking about premire is the there is the the actual teaching material of how to teach the seven gifts they are on the Web site right now. The four week sermon series we haven't ruled that out yet. Richard is that going to be on the new wave.

[01:03:09] Yes. So the stuff that's on the on the site Ron is in modules two and three. There's a ton of training on the gifts and passions test and both of those that we try to answer we we get on what's called once a month and we or there's probably two or three questions we answer every month so we try to jump in and take the top seven or eight questions about the gifts and passions test and put them on there as well as all the teaching on that. As far as the sermon things that's coming we're going to start we're launching this platform it's called sermons not today. That's the Web site sermons today. It is not like there's nothing there yet but if you listen into this after April 15 or 2018 there will be a site there. Jerry and I kind of collectively sat down and thought how do we how do we add value to pastors how do we create space in ministry easier make it simpler. And one of the things we realize is that most of you don't have time to prepare your sermons. And so what we decided to do was to build a platform where we can get you 50 to 60 percent of the way there every week with content that's been prepared by Jerry. These are going to be messages that have actually been preached which is radically different I think than just about anything else out there.

[01:04:19] Most of the stuff that's out there is transcripts and then there's a few organizations that actually have sermon notes those sermon notes I have come to discover are written by people that sit in a room and listen to other people's messages and then try to write out the notes and capture the essence of what the pastor was trying to communicate. What we're going to be giving you is messages that have actually been preached will be with most of the messages there will not only be the detailed notes but the stage notes graphics video bumpers everything. So that's coming if we don't have it yet and sermon notes things Jerry is talking about. We're going to find a way to get that 24 to double members because we know that that's going to be a critical piece of the 2014 double process. The other thing that Jerry is making in the past which I think is brilliant is as you're moving through these modules to preach the modules in your church. So find a way to preach about the WoW team find a way to preach about creative outreach follow up find a way to talk about why it's important not just invite your friends to church but then invite them back. You know those kind of laws against what I say.

[01:05:27] Yeah. One thing I want to add to it is I preach what we're doing. That's what I do. And so we're going to be releasing my entire sermon catalogue for a decade. And so you're going to be having access to sermons that when I was learning 24 to double when I was inventing this system. This is what I was preaching. This is how it was going. So the very things that are in the training the sermons go to that many pastors disconnect. You know we've got this event or that that I've got my sermon No. They've all got the same thing. I mean if you're having an event preach about the event. If you can't preach about it then why are you having it. You shouldn't be having this or not or preaching about. So we coordinate all that stuff together so that that's going to be really helpful has really been a missing component of 24 double. You know it just it it's just it's just a long time coming it's time for it to happen so I'm excited about it getting close to being here.

[01:06:28] Yeah. Thanks a lot. Hey thanks. Everybody hung out almost everybody stay here this whole time. So thanks for being with us. Put it on your calendar. We do this the third Tuesday of every sort of the third Thursday of every month at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Don't worry we'll send you e-mails. But if you've got it on your calendar. We know that there's a higher probability that you'll make it happen if you have questions e-mails that support 24 to double dot com otherwise. Thanks Gerri. And we'll catch you pastors next month on the call.

[01:06:58] God bless everyone.