24toDouble Members Live Q&A – October 2018

24toDouble Members Questions asked about the Gifts and Passions Profile and More:

  • Do the top 5-fold leaders need to be put into place before placing the leadership for the seven teams?

  • How do you organize the Gifts and Passions profile results?

  • What is the best order, to get the maximum growth, to go through the modules?

  • When and how is the best time to give the Gifts and Passions profile?

  • Are there any programs you have used or come across that work well with 24toDouble to bring in newcomers?

 

Transcript +

[00:00:02] Hey Pastors! This is Richard Chancy with 24todouble and I am so thankful that you're on here today. Welcome back. I've got a bit of a curveball ball for you today. We got our wires crossed with Pastor Lawson. He's in Africa, and we were going to try to do this call with him being there and that simply is not going to work out because you'll be surprised to learn that the cell tower technology in Africa is not great. And we learned this information late yesterday, and because we'd already sent out the invitations we didn't want to cancel on you. So here's what we're going to do. I'm going to take some questions today and also do a little bit of teaching, and I'll tell you what that's about in a second but then we're going to do a regularly scheduled Q and A again next Thursday. I cannot apologize enough for that. Again a lot of people are getting on right now. We've had some technical difficulties in getting Jerry on the call from Africa. He's on a trip over there with some people from his church. We kind of got our wires crossed didn't realize this was the week that he was going to be doing that we were thinking it was next week and the scheduling just got messed up so we're going to do a live Q&A again next week at 2:00 o'clock. But I thought what we would do today is I will take questions. So let me put this in context for you. In case you're new to 24todouble the partnership between myself and Jerry is it there is a very clear line distinguishing Jerry and that being Jerry is the subject matter expert when it comes to church growth and church leadership and I am the guy that knows how to get the word out about what Jerry does and other people. So I wanted to put that out there before we doubt him because if we dive in and you start asking me questions about things that are not like what's on the site and how to how to use the Gifts and Passions Profile and Passions Profile impassion says those are things I'm going to defer til next week for that. But here is the good thing that I think I can do for you. Some of you may not know this but what I do is I go out and I find people like Gary that have a message to tell to church mostly in church world. And then partner with them with my team to help get that message out. If you've been with us very long you know I'm passionate about pastors and about church growth. I love the fact that we had the opportunity to partner with almost 2600 churches in 24toDouble. I love all that but I'm not a church growth expert whatsoever. Now I do have a couple different feet in two different poles. One of those if you've been with us for a couple of months is one of the other things I do is actually run a company for John Maxwell and I am learning a ton over there. I run the personal leadership Solutions team at the John Maxwell company as well. And we just launched a new community over there and I'm doing some teaching around some of John's content in that community. In fact yesterday I spent time on the phone with a group of people talking through John's definition of a growth plan and I'm going to share some of that content with you today. But some of you guys jumped on here and you got in the queue right off the bat. It looks like there's three or four people in there already. I'm going to make you live in a few minutes and I'll do my dead level best to answer your questions. But if you're regretting haven't hit that button. I'm not sure that there's anything that I can do to get you out of there other than to get you on and take your questions. So I'm going to do that upfront and then as I teach on this growth plan I'm going to give you a Six Steps to a growth plan. And just so you know. Jerry always says that your church pastor is perfectly designed to be the size that it is right now. So think about that your process's your systems your leadership is what his design your church well that all starts with you and if you're going to go to the next level you've got to grow to the next level meaning there's something that you've got to do differently to get to that next level. And I'm going to walk you through the six steps that John Mack will give to get you to that next level in just a minute. But before I do that I want to make sure that we're giving credence to these questions so I'm going to go ahead and take a shot at answering your questions and we'll see how that goes.

[00:04:22] So I think this is First Baptist Church is the first one up you'll be prompted and then just say your name and ask your question Hey there this is Vern Reisner at the First Baptist Church in Pekin actually have some follow up questions as well. But on the matrix the top five fold ministry leaders on the very top. Do they need to be put in place before the team. Have those five full leaders in place.

[00:04:51] I lost you there. So I'm assuming that you can still hear me. Yes. OK.

[00:04:57] Do they need to be put in place before what do the top five fold leadership positions need to be put in place before you start adding those leadership positions in the seven teams below.

[00:05:09] Yes. So here's the. In an ideal world and I've heard Jerry answer this question a number of times. In an ideal world you'll have a leader for every team before you go to to work on those teams right. That's not always capable depending on your. It's not always possible depending on the team size and sometimes the leader rises from within. So it's the the answer is yes. If you know the person and you've got them if you don't have the person or you're not real sure what I would tell you is don't hesitate to start building teams and then pay real close attention to who the real leaders are. That's the best thing about volunteer teams is the ministry is the paycheck right. Vision is the paycheck on these teams and by and right because nobody is getting paid to do this or most people aren't getting paid to do this so the people that step up when there's a meeting that needs to happen or there's a volunteer project or there's coordination that needs to happen. The people that step up and step in those are the people I think you want to pay attention to to be able to go to those teams and without the team in place. You might not ever know that. So I know that it depends is not a great answer to any question but if you have the person I'd go ahead and put them in place. Now what I wouldn't do pastor is I wouldn't wait to build. I wouldn't wait to get those all those leaders in place before I drill down and build any of those teams. In fact what I would do is take a step back from your church and go hey where's where's the big lever here. What's the. Which one of these teams is going to give us the biggest return on our investment. Right off the bat. And then I would really lean into that and personally what we've seen over the years. One of the highest return activities that you can participate in is developing a solid follow up process because here's what I know as as a church we think at follow up. And I think we forget that when somebody shows up for the church for the first time more than 80 percent of them are invited by somebody that has a personal relationship. And if you think about what that takes. So somebody is investing in somebody in a relationship over time and they finally get comfortable enough to say hey we're having this event in our church. I would love for you to come. Sometimes that can be two weeks depending on the person. It can be two years. So there is a significant investment in time. And change in the pocket every time somebody shows up to your church for the first time they come in and it's almost like the people in the church the congregation we haven't we haven't coached them to realize how your job is not done yet. You haven't crossed the finish line you just got them here the first time because you have the personal relationship. We need you to stay with that person. But at the same time we we need to have strategies in place where we can automate what's the most important thing in the church which is we got him here. How do we get them back and so far focusing on those teams and building out one of those teams really well right off the bat.

[00:08:10] I'd focus on follow up first because it's going to write a really great answer but there might be a little bit of disconnect. Like for example the team number one outreach and number two first impressions the leader the leader of those leaders is the evangelist. The recruiting coordinator on the top right part of the five fold. Do you have to have that fivefold ministry leader evangelist in place before you start putting leaders in Team 1a.m. to think you're the obvious thing would be.

[00:08:46] Well yes unless. Oh come on. Who else is going to do it. Which makes them the de facto leader. So you would say maybe just be an interim right and the evangelist doesn't always have to be the person on on the on the top of the chart. Usually that's an administrative type leader that's going to be on the top and then every team needs somebody that's just out recruiting or having those meetings. There's one on one meetings that are going to draw people into those environments.

[00:09:11] OK because in module 2 He said the Red Square which is the evangelist fivefold later will be over Team 1 and 2 outreach and first impressions you'll take.

[00:09:22] So I don't know if you heard my disclaimer at the top of this thing. I bet your calls were in the deep weeds. I said ok. Ideally yes as long as you got them. But if you don't have them then you've got to rub two sticks together and figure out how to make a fire.

[00:09:37] I'm with you. OK let me ask you where do you put church leaders like for example deacons and trustees on the matrix because you know like their leaders in the church it's kind of hard to know where do we put them that way.

[00:09:50] Great question because you because you're basically saying hey they're already in influential positions. Yeah. How are we right. Ship them basically lights feed them on the bus like we can put our greeters on the first impressions team. But it's a leadership board that's already in place I can call next week and ask I've got two more for you back Jerry's answer that question a number of times and I hesitate to answer it for him but I think he's going to what you're going to get you're ultimately going to move in a direction where those people are finding a home on some sort of leadership team.

[00:10:26] But it's not as the culture is going it will shift over time. If you work that I will think Hey that is that man I hesitate to answer that I can tell you what I would do but I don't know that that would be the last thing you want to create as much change with as little turbulence as possible. Any time you're trying to shift an organization you're trying to find hey what's the one thing that we can do that's going to make everything else easier or unnecessary and pull that lever. And also you need to think about this as this question you're asking is a great one and I'd love to hear Jerry's comments on it because you have to affect change. I think we all everybody on this call everybody is going to listen to this in the future we all know that the church is under attack and that we've got to change in order to be able to reach people that are that are far from God.

[00:11:12] The last thing we want to do is pull some of these levers at one time and disrupt the people that are for us. So I think that would be that probably would be a great question for Jerry.

[00:11:23] Okay. But that doesn't equate the hog all the time here but I got two real quick ones here at the compassion's past. How do you organize and manage the results for best to use because all the you got 100 get some Bashan stats and you're like OK Adeline so the future answer this question is going to be we're going to have a different platform.

[00:11:43] It's we're already creating it now about we need a platform that when you sign up for that and people take that test it organizes them into files for you. There's a couple of different ways to do it. We've talked about on here before there's Dropbox folders that staff have access to that you can put those into and then you need to follow them in a couple of different ways right. And then there's the old school just a hard copy in a file and you'd fallen by the top two Gifts and Passions Profile and passions. And that in that way when somebody comes in they say hey I need administrative leader on my team and I can open it up and kind of go through there and see who's available. It's not a perfect system right now but down the road what we hope to be able to do is to have this give some Passionist test nor will go a Northpoint here in Atlanta. They called and asked if they could use our Gifts and Passions Profile and passion's test and I said I'm pretty sure it would break it if you guys use it. We had these conversations about maybe build a platform that would make some passion's test independent of 24 double simply because we feel like it's a catalyst for churches when people find when they are. If you're listening you're new to this. When you take the Gifts and Passions Profile and passions test you get somebody in an area of competence versus an area where they just where they can. There's one thing to be able to come in and do run a ministry position but it's another thing to be working in your giftedness. People that are in their giftedness stay longer and people that don't. They burn out pretty quickly and if your church has less than 300 people chances are everybody kind of knows everybody and if they feel like they're letting people down they're going to go away they're not going to go back into a into a seat. OK.

[00:13:29] OK. Sounds good makes sense. Last question if you if you have three different ministries under say your first impressions came three different ones that lead to that ministry. Ministry have the the five leaders represent or do they have a leader just to report to that team.

[00:13:50] So I know the answer to this one. I'm pretty excited that you got it. Here's the answer you want. And this is what Jerry would tell you. You want to create as many volunteer positions as humanly possible. Now you don't want to have 80 percent of your volunteer positions to be vacant. But the whole point the whole point of the Gifts and Passions Profile and passions test and use this methodology to populate your volunteer teams is because the church is going to grow from the inside out. See this all the time especially with pastors that are great communicators. They can draw a crowd and the church the church attendance will porpoise. It'll go up and then it'll all pull back it'll go up and it'll pull back and they're going what's wrong what's wrong. The bottom line is you don't have the systems in place to support the growth. So here's the thing. The answer to that question is every time you want to add more there's volunteer positions when you start getting full and volunteer positions and going oh we really don't have anything for this person to do and you can subdivide these teams and create more positions and more leadership roles and more people recruiting and more people praying that those kind of things that that is that didn't make a bit of sense to me when Jerry and I started working together. But the more we look at it that that is an effective system.

[00:15:06] When you build these teams around this model it's an effective system to be able to sustain the growth that your church is going to have. And that's why I think it's so important to do the backfills stuff first like the follow up plan because if you get people there and you're only retaining 6 percent of them man that's a lot of wasted effort and you're only really getting a shot at people one time which is a big deal for us it's life altering for them.

[00:15:31] Yeah. OK. That was very helpful I appreciate it so much I'll hang on and listen.

[00:15:36] Super. All right. Next one is looks like Cheney Baptist.

[00:15:42] Yes this is Keith Peters Cheney Baptist Church. We're on module 10 in the process and I have a couple of questions that are just kind of plaguing me as I'm trying to choose leaders for this process and in particular like the previous caller we have an existing structure of bearskins and TRUSTe and at least for the deacons or the elder positions the bible is pretty clear about spiritual leadership qualities. But all of a sudden I have trouble sometimes finding qualified men for those positions. And all of a sudden I'm trying to re orient my church around seven other key leadership positions where it's still unclear to me what are the spiritual qualifications for the administrators.

[00:16:32] Wow. So that's definitely I don't want to defer everything to Jerry Butler. I want to give you my answer then I'll give you then I'll defer to Jerry on this colloquy because I think that kind of question is the very kind of question that we built this environment for right here. Q And to be able to come in and have somebody else's that's wrestled it out here would be my my question for you back. What do you think they are and spending some time on that. So two questions. What do you think those qualities are and then how do you cultivate them in your church. Because we all we all want leaders right. Yeah. Run two different organizations. Every day I wake up and I think man it would be nice if we could have you know somebody that could lead this or that.

[00:17:21] The reality is sometimes as people come along most of the time you have to have a plan for developing leaders were cultivating those qualities teaching that stuff from from stage as well as the one on one conversations and literally like doing the hand-to-hand combat that comes along with growing leaders. So what do you think those are.

[00:17:41] Well certainly if I come from a conservative Baptist background and I realize that our own 65 year old church Sunday more Sunday School Sunday morning Sunday night Wednesday night small groups men Women's Bible studiesetc. So we're excited and I have a team of about 30 people some staff mostly volunteers who are going through the training with me. But what I'm noticing is we're giving the gift test to some of these people using the standard definition in the first to answer your question is X Chapter 6 is basically the assignment of ministry leaders. And then at least from our Baptist tradition we traditionally view the acceptor 6 as the model for the deacon ministry. So I would lean towards acceptor 6 and First Timothy Chapter 3. That gets me in the problem of for instance defining faithful in all things. And what we have is a lot of people who are excited about this or some of them are The Millennials and they simply do not value traditional church even in our church. They're involved in Sunday morning. They're involved in their own ministry fields but things like small groups. Most Bible study women's Bible study Sunday night Wednesday night a one hour program. Some of these people say they just don't value that. So we've had trouble even finding young qualified deacons because their Sunday morning people and they just say they're busy. And I've struggled and I'm sure I'm not the only pastor struggling with this Dubai. I just my understanding of what faith and all things means I'm not trying to be rigid. I know people work and have schedules. But that's been an issue an ongoing issue with the younger people the older generation they they grow up in a church that defined faithfulness as you come when the church is open if you can. It's rare increasingly rare. And the same the same standard if I apply stewardship you know says Timothy three deacons are good stewards so the mysteries of God the gospel but many of the younger generation just don't give. So if I if I use just simply those two standards are they faithful when they can come do they come to the existing ministries of the church. And I understand I may end up weeding out the Sunday night and that Wednesday night. But that's where we've been for 65 years. If I just applied those two standards are they getting regularly and proportionately and are they committed to attending the existing ministries of the church then that narrows my field considerably with you. Yeah. If however I lower that standard then people who have been expected to live by that standard are now working for an answering to people who do not.

[00:20:38] And that sets me up for a real conflict well there's a there's a lot in that what you just add though if there's one thing that I've learned working for John Maxwell over the years is this when you're the leader and there's a problem you're it.

[00:21:00] And so we don't we don't we don't solve problems that we don't take responsibility for this thing with millennials. Is this is how to reach the next generation. Maybe it always has been. But it is the great challenge of the church currently it's our biggest challenge. Go and go in for being relevant stats on the Latios. And when I say the stats on millennials leaving the church. The stats on millennials that grew up in church that are leaving the church. It's it's unbelievable. Now I don't know that we've measured those numbers very well in previous generations because I think everybody goes through a season where they get more freedom and then they think less about roots and what what's important. But to me it feels like we're missing. If you're the two things that you said is they're not they're not coming up coming regularly and they're not engaging they're not they're not owning the vision. And as a leader you know you've got to I think you have to take a step back from it. Why is that and why do we need to do. The idea of raising your standards. If I just I don't mean or low in your standard. I don't believe that it's hard for me at my core to believe that's the answer to that question. The more appropriate some might be maybe you need to raise your standards maybe you need to maybe maybe it's challenging challenging this generation to do something for each other. Because what I do know and I and the John Naxal company have six of them that work on my team. So if you want to talk about culture shock I haven't worked in an office in 10 years and I go back I'm over there a couple nights a week and everybody's under 30. They don't get my jokes I make references about movies that I haven't seen in i i. I mean they constantly I say stuff and I laugh at myself when I when I make a joke and they just don't get it you know. And so there's this there's this gap and I'm trying to figure out how to bridge that gap and part of what I do with bridging that gap is make fun of the gap but then I went on what I'm trying to invest in them the big thing I've learned about them is they love doing stuff together. There is. They embrace community in a way that you and I haven't thought about. And so here's what we know about that we can leverage that because right now the only place they can find community is at work and everybody doesn't espouse the same value system that they do. So what we can do is we can we can be better at that than anybody else because we're naturally good at bringing people together and creating community. So I think if you can look inside of this and go Hey what would make them what would get them excited about coming out. Yes we can. Here's the thing to passer so we run Facebook ads trying to let people know about the message of 24 day in a 24toDouble day in and day out. I do all that. Jerry doesn't see the comments that we get on those ads and the overall feel of the church these days if I just went by negative negative comments we get on our Facebook ads is. It doesn't matter what they want. We're preaching the word. If they want to get into heaven they need to come here and know Jesus and that's been our posture towards a lot of people in general. All you gotta do is preach the Word of God and that's your responsibility. I'm like is it. So we just stand and start preaching. Are people going to show up and the answer is No. We have a debate. We have to serve people where they are in the way that they are and then introduce them to the greatest information that they're ever going to hear in their life. But if we just say you know hey you can be like us and then we'll tell you about Jesus. I think that's that's disappointing.

[00:24:48] Sure. And I absolutely agree with you. My my my caution is like the emergent church movement where you remove any of the offense of the cross and I'm no expert in that movement. Independent Baptists have been traditionally very conservative but our culture is changing so we need to find ways to change without compromise and biblical principles. My challenge is not the community. My challenge is the people who want to lead these ministries and the standards I need to hold. Let me give you a specific challenge. One of the men who met his wife grew up in our church. He did. They moved away got hurt in a church because of church discipline on someone they knew not them. And that at a church connected with a small group in fact connected with the church that was started using gospel communities and that he'll Bam and help them and they grew so they came to our church a number of years ago. Back to our church with a real vision for that first meeting I had with them. We talked about small groups and shared that they've been here for probably six years. They've not started one small group. They tried once and it didn't seem to work. And then because they are very I mean their Sunday morning people but their key people in very tech savvy and very good people. Kind of a home school family. So when we started this I invited them to join in. And of course they zero in on the small group and they basically he wants to be the administrator of the small groups. They've never been involved in a small group other than a Sunday school class. When he taught it never been involved and she's never been involved with the ladies small group study her. The man does. They don't come on Sunday night or Wednesday night we have small groups on Wednesday night table groups. So he wants to be the administrator he definitely has a passion for small groups. But his definition of small groups is what his church did in another state which were gospel communities no children's ministry. They were all done in the small groups. So I'm feeling pressure and he's a good man and I don't want to offend them and I my my approach is you go beta test your concept of the Gospel communities will fund it will encourage it. He's telling me unless I get 100 percent behind it. Cancel the children's ministry cancel the Awana program and cancel the evening services. It won't work. And I thought I heard you or Jerry talk about how to be careful to transition from the existing structure to maybe maybe this gospel community. So that's that's a real. I mean I respect them and I love them and I see some real possibilities in his his vision. But putting him in charge of our existing small groups when he's not supported them I see them like shooting myself in the foot.

[00:27:49] So have you had that. I mean have you had that conversation with him. Have you just sat down and humbly said hey I want to do this. But let let me. Can I just be real. You have permission. To talk to me about my concern.

[00:28:05] Yeah. And I was I've had some of these conversations that I have a pullback that frankly I was hoping that get your input before I had that sit down with him. So now we have to I have told him for months I've just never seen what you were suggesting work it may have worked at your church. I actually got the number. I was senior pastor of the church at work. It's a large church and they have 40 small groups. And he told me honestly 24 of them do not work. This particular man was in one group that did work with the children's ministry incorporated through it. And I certainly have nothing against that model but that church started that way. He's unveiling measures from him to transition us to a model that really work for him but hasn't worked for probably 800 other people in that church effectively hasn't worked as effectively as it did for him. So my position is you know I will I will help you I will encourage you but I need to see that you are model and particularly having the children in the small group downstairs in the basement with you know because of their home school influence they have this philosophy pretty much but parents are responsible for the spiritual training of the kids and I accept that but that's not where most people are. So I want to move in that direction but I'm cautious about the speed in which I moved and are so cautious about putting him in leadership when he's actually going to be leading ministries. He doesn't believe in Yeah.

[00:29:45] And I think honestly I think you've got to have that whole conversation with him you know and just say hey let me let me tell you what this looks like from the outside. And I want to be very careful about this conversation because I truly value you because this guy is he may not be a great leader but he's definitely administrative leader because nobody else would come to somebody that's a professional Christian and go Hey you're doing this all wrong. Here's the way do it. Shut everything else down. Not only that I mean like I don't know what he does for a living but if you went and did the same thing to him he'd probably be like Have you lost your mind. Only in the church can that happen. Somebody thinks about it 30 minutes a week has got a better idea than somebody that lays awake in bed at night trying to figure it out. You know I hear from God God's voice. I think that's I think that this is a guy you don't want to lose. I think he is. Pat you said there were passion a couple of times and I want to make sure that I'm not my definition of passion. And I and I believe God put me here to ignite passion in people. My definition of passion is not energy. My definition of passion is are you willing to pay the price because there's a cost to this. And here's the thing. And if I was sitting with him here's what I would telling the costs are this right now is for you to start this and listen to what I say in the beginning because we're we can't risk all these other ministries that it's not just like heaven doing away with ministries you don't you'll lose people if you turn the ship too fast.

[00:31:11] Yeah and I know that good people right.

[00:31:16] So hey so we've got to find that middle ground where I can give you enough that you feel like you can get some momentum but not so much that I'm putting at risk the rest of the ministry because the people that are here they matter and and people don't take change. Well Jerry talks about that all the time. So is there is there if if it can only happen by doing this this this this and this. That's not an effective plan. It's not true. That's not an effective plan never starts with Hey let's burn the ships and you know that I think that would be irresponsible. As a leader but at the same time everybody needs to hear this. If you're listening to this it's Keith right. Keith when you embrace strong leaders these are the conversations that you have because as leaders we all know the answer. I mean it's we've not only thought about it for a couple of minutes but let me just tell you how to do that as leaders. And when you embrace to lead other leaders you've got to be able to figure out how to take that take that energy take that passion take that stubborn knowledge like I know how to do this and figure out how to ask some questions and go Hey OK. If all of that can happen right away what are the two or three things there must haves that you can do this. Well it's got a you know we've got to shift the church down. OK well that's not going to happen. Like what else. You know what. What's the minimum viable product. That's what we're always asking the question is OK what's it going to take to get this thing out into the world and that's good terminology to use to is like hey what's the minimal Bible. Because just go hey let me tell you this. Let me set this next statement up by saying this I love you and I appreciate you. If I didn't I would never tell you what I'm about to tell you. And here it is. I think this is a great idea but I haven't seen you follow through on it over six years. That makes me nervous. So what I need is for you and I don't need you to be offended I need for you to agree with me that if we're going to make decisions based on this idea that you are all in and I'm not looking for an answer right now. But if you are not if you're not consumed with seeing this through then we don't need to start because we'll be risking too much. If this is not something that God has told you specifically called you did it and I would get and I think you got to call those things out because you're the man that called the God called into ministry. You're the man that God has given stewardship over this church. And I absolutely 100 percent know that he's given you stewardship over this church because you're leading this church and if God didn't want that to be true you would be dead or working somewhere else.

[00:33:56] Yes sir. QUESTION But I'm sure I'm not the only one that's running to a smaller church maybe 180 people for my pool of people is limited. And this particular couple wants to lead two of the seven different ministries and I know a couple of very similar logos. One to both about both these couples are Maloni those one is more faithful than the other but they bring their perspective. And when I push back a little bit for instance one or the other he and his wife also won the lead are shocking. And they come up with let's paint the sanctuary dark gray because that's what the that's what's popular on Pinterest. And I want to be open I don't want to clench their spirit but dark gray. I got a lot of into the paint samples so I lightened it and they come back with the you know you shouldn't be making these decisions. Pastor let us make all these decisions you know to protect you. And I'm trying to and I explained to them you know I don't want to discourage your moving. But I have to pastor the whole church just not the millennials. And when I hear comments like my church reminds me of a dungeon or prison gray you know but I you know I have to be sensitive to the fact that you know this other generation doesn't have the same tastes and values and that's true whether it's music or whatever. So I say you know I want to I have to be an in-between you guys and I want to I want you to help us to move in that direction. And their answer was We want you in front leading but I can't lead in every area that they want me to go. Does that make sense to you like dark sanctuary.

[00:35:41] Let me tell ya. Let me give you an idea. Years ago at a church construction consulting and I would go into churches and have that very conversation with people. I remember specifically a conversation I had with with the the body that was making the decisions on the church. We were getting ready to build a sanctuary for church in Texarkana Texas. And I remember it was one of the it was a it was one of the best experiences of my life because there were men in this room that were 80 and there were some that were 28 and and I watch these guys. I watched a robust debate about some some punch and major function. I think it was like audio visual audio that cuts up on the older gentleman was like plain enough the older guy was saying we're not spend enough money in this area and the other guy was defending was enough and shouldn't be anymore. It was exactly the opposite of what you would think. But I watch these guys have have a debate. Robust debate in a in an incredibly loving and respectful way. So the reason I say that right here these questions about paint color and those kind of things. It's a perfect opportunity to bring those two groups of people and let them let them hear each other. And so leveraging the paint colors which at the end of the day I don't know who's complaining about it but if it's man let me tell you. Two weeks after it's painted they're not going to notice. Some are like that all the time just like this. The house I'm like has been a bunch of money on the inside of this house and two weeks later forget we did it but that's a fact. But here's the bottom line. We can leverage these things that feel like a crisis in the moment. I always tell people don't don't waste a crisis right if you've got tension between two groups of people. Leverage it. Figure out how to get them together. Get them in a room and let them learn something because as we get older we don't we tend to not want things to change. So the older generation is like churches for church people. We shouldn't be trying to reach these people I want to come here I want to set my spot and I want to do this and I count myself and in that crowd. And there's a younger people. And again I work with a lot of millennials mentor millennials. I love them but they can be an expert at something they've never done. Yes. It's fascinating and it's one of those things that you have to realize it's a quality that gives them confidence to do extraordinary things. But it also has to be tempered with the fact that you have never you've never done this you've never painted the interior of a church a certain they could paint that thing. The most neutral color in the world somebody is going to complain about it. Sure. I guarantee you that's the way it is.

[00:38:20] But they color because of the comment they made as a senior pastor. Do you want administrators or do you want administrative assistance to help you organize. And I want both you know I don't want to relinquish my responsibility because I have to pastor the whole church. But I also I'm not a micromanager but when they run they make a drastic change it's kind of like changing it by degrees you know from from right a dark gray was a fairly drastic visual change.

[00:38:52] Yes. Well the comment about administrative administrative leaders even great leaders have to know how to follow right because you don't mean like you may be great it you may be great at preaching but you may be terrible at outreach and if you're great at preaching and you're terrible at outreach when you're in that outreach environment you should not be leading. You should know how to. Good. Great leaders know when to follow. And the thing about it is the way that we do put these Gifts and Passions Profile and Passions Profile and passions test together the administrative leaders are still under the authority of the ruling body of the church. They don't have carte blanche. And that's I know that's a hard thing for millennials. What I believe effectively is asking thoughtful questions. I rarely make statements anymore. I just go OK hey if we paint this this color what do you think the people who have been here for awhile are going to say well they must and this man that might say hey you know the best way to know what they're going to say. Let's go ask them. You know I mean like use these these moments to create that connection. And I think that solves a couple of the problems. I mean it is going to get people more engaged when millennials feel they know the generation that's a step ahead of them in your church. They're probably going to be more apt to be mentors and invested in. And that's going to create a stickiness in those people with your church and also make them more likely to invite their friends. So I think they went all the way around.

[00:40:15] Yeah I didn't mean to dominate so much of Europe.

[00:40:18] You know we only got two other callers in here but we probably do need to move on. But make sure you come back next week I'd love to hear Jerry's answers to that as well.

[00:40:28] All right thanks Bassler. All right.

[00:40:32] I think this is Maurice or maybe it's Frank.

[00:40:35] It's Maurice. Maurice. Hey Richard how are you. I'm good. What I want to ask a couple of questions. One we have a young church in the city. We're inSt. Petersburg Florida. We are fresh to 24 double. We have about 63 members and wanted to find out we have what we believe.

[00:41:04] You know we've been to a few conferences already and one of the reasons that we join in 2014 is exactly what you describe in regard to the fire hydrant and trying to take what happened. And so the first thing I would like to know is what would be the best order to get the maximum growth to roll out the modules. I mean do we do them. We just did molecule zero zero last night and we had a meeting with the with the leaders prior got them on board and sat with the rest of the church. Roll that out last night. So now moving forward what would be the most effective way or what order would you roll them out to get the biggest bang in terms of growth.

[00:41:54] Yeah and I've heard I've heard Jerry answer this question a number of times over the years and it's a it's really a two part answer. If there's not like a super there's not a bleeding neck issue. When you look at the seventeen's and you go that's where we need to start if that if you don't have that then move through them in order. And that's what that's what Jerry would tell you. But if there's like a super obvious answer to that to then then start there. The bottom line is you will get impact out of this without getting all the way through it. In fact we see churches we we see churches all the time six months and that have already doubled. Churches that go from your size to larger because it's the impact of putting these systems in place. If you're at six hundred you're probably not going to get twelve hundred in 12 months or in six months. But if you're 63 very possible to double in a short period time just by doing by tweaking a few different things put some systems in place. And honestly just getting other people to think about ministry.

[00:42:55] Got you got.

[00:42:56] Yeah. And by the way too in case we do we can I tend to forget where we're in. We are we are in ministry. But we also had the opportunity to provide people with something they're not getting anywhere else. And that's the message of Jesus which is obvious but also purpose for their life that God designed them on purpose and for a purpose. A We get to reveal it to them and put them in the middle of it impersonal ministry and you use this gift of passion. I've been doing I've been doing volunteer ministry at my church for 20 years and about eight years ago I took a high school small group. God was calling me to do that. Huge commitment. It's four hours every Sunday I'm hanging with these guys and going to this is a big man I've done I've I've led small groups I've led large groups I've led host teams that do porking starting point groups at the church which is you know people that are considering Christina I've done all the things George and I am in the right place for me and the Gifts and Passions Profile and Passions Profile and passions test that basically you should be involved in student ministry in a leadership position as tutor ministry and I'm like man it's been good to have 20 years ago. But I mean like so don't forget that we are bringing the most valuable thing that we can bring to people salvation in purpose. That's an issue.

[00:44:18] Right. Right. Right. OK. Excellent. And that actually segues me into to the next question when and how best to give that spiritual gift assessment when you're looking to start building your team.

[00:44:34] You know we're small but you know I'll I'll take a look and look at you know we have an event coming up actually that we had already started promoting or had decided to do. Prior to joining 24 Dubble which is something like a fall festival or we call it Hallowed be thy name for the Halloween day world. That's awesome. So we're going we're going to do that next week. We're doing a couple of things now that are preparing for that. You know in terms of you know some sort of marketing and advertising that sort of thing. But however in building the teams going forward. When is the best time to roll out that that gift assessment. Because obviously you know I know you've got to start populating that at some point and I think I heard a caller say earlier that you said that you don't necessarily have to do the five at the top. Sometimes those emerge out of the teams. But we with you actually start when would you give that gift to us.

[00:45:47] Well there's a couple of different ways. I've heard Jerry answer this question again a couple of times over the years hit the sound systems guy right. So I always think about process. I wouldn't give that test to more people than you could effectively manage to move them into ministry positions at one time. Now in some churches you might be if you've got thousand people you might be able do that with 100 people at the time. But this this some impassioned staffed is going to be a hot iron for a short period of time. Meanwhile people are going to want to take the pass because they're going to learn something about themselves that they did not know about themselves. And we can leverage that as a catalyst to get them from Rose into volunteering in small groups in those countries. Right. So why don't you give it to 63 people at one time and you don't have a way to put those people into positions. You could be in trouble so you know the pastor's breakfast the jury talks about in module 2 I might use that and start inviting small groups of people together. You know when I say small groups and start with your leaders and I pull in and maybe just have eight or 10 people all the time have them take the test. What did you learn. What does that mean. Where does this mean you need to be doing ministry and then how do we get you go and that kind of thing versus getting 63 of them in and 50 of them are not going to hear from me for three or four weeks or if at all if you don't have a good effective system. I mean again I've been in Northpoint for 20 years and they do 80 does a talk every year and says hey you know if you're going to be here and you're part you call your church and he be involved. I call it the Get Involved a get out speech. Yeah yeah I mean like you know you got a fast growing church you can't afford to carry a lot of people that are just going to consume and eat. But they have so they gather all this information. People fill out a cardinal this kind of stuff. And my wife did it a couple times and basically had to blunt force trauma her way onto a ministry team because not only did they not follow up. She couldn't get anybody to respond to inquiries about getting on one of these. Couldn't find out where to go or when to show up or indeed that cost them. So your system is broken on the back end it doesn't matter how good how good you preach it or how good you get people to take this test. So this is what I tell you Maurice. When we get off the call today to spend a few minutes and go OK this is the way we're going to do it because there's no right there's no right answer. The only wrong answer is to not do anything.

[00:48:15] Got you got got Gutsche. Well then I'll ask you one last question and then I'll settle this. It's excellent that you say you're the guy and I'll just use this Jerry is not here this may be something that may fall into a category that you would know about. You said you're the guy who is the systems guy the web guy who kind of gets the word out about 24 double. Has there been times or have there been programs that you have run across that have worked well in unison with 24 Dubble to bring first time offenders like I've heard about the make an appointment so things of that nature. Have you seen ministries that have kind of you know married those two systems or at least incorporated more than one system to kind of try to accelerate growth.

[00:49:16] You know I could probably name a couple of things that might work effectively. You know the gap or the Barna Research indicates that more than 80 percent of people that come to church for the first time are invited. So. So here's what I would tell you that's the kiss method. Keep it simple stupid. That's it. That's what I said when I tried to. I tell you this right now. But I'm the kind of guy that if you ask me what time it is I'll tell you how to build a clock. I can make things way more hard more difficult than they need to be. Would you would be here's my encouragement to you. Maurice you've got 60 people in your church that's enough. You need to have an outreach team. And then the number one question they need to be asking is that question and you just asked me how do we do this effectively. So you need to think about leaders and let those leaders think about things like how do we make outreach be more effective. And then they need to come back to you and say hey this week we need you to talk about what it means to invest and invite people and they need to be brave because that your job is to stand on stage and inspire people to do something with what they know and what they believe. Because people are going to go to hell. That's a fact. And I had this revelation a couple of years ago when I had a family member that was living with us as they were passing away from lung cancer. And I kept thinking I need to have a conversation with this person about their faith. And I kept thinking about it kept thinking about it and God finally told me he's like are you. Are you more concerned about offending them or that they would be separated from me forever. Which one are you. So basically like this and they're going what would I rather somebody go to hell versus offend them. Well the answer is no. So I jump in and I had this conversation. So your job is to to stand on stage and get people to do what they were put here to do. And that's laypeople in a relationship with Jesus and they may not even know that yet. So let let the. That's the beautiful thing about 24 together we're bringing it in and Jerry's teaching you and your people at the same time. And those people knowing how to grab that vision and there are people in your church that God made to reach other people in your community. Right. That's a fact. Everything you need to do a ministry in your church. You got it. There's plenty of money. There's plenty of vision. There's plenty of volunteers. We just have to get to work putting the systems in place that that set those people free to do ministry.

[00:51:40] OK excellent excellent. Well thank you very much. All right my friend. Have a good one. All right I think this is Derek. Maybe Christina although I don't I'm going to buy you a Sterrett. Yes they are Koffigoh. I'm good man how you do it. Enjoying the weather. Oh yeah. Really. Where are you. Where are you.

[00:52:04] I'm in Chicago. It's called Bethel Pentecostal church in a suburb called Blue Island just south of Chicago. So I encourage everyone I've been listening since the beginning and I'm on module's 16 and the great part about this is that the resistance is real. The enemy is real. He's going to put so many different obstacles in front of you but keep the course and see this this works but thanks. Thanks for that got to go through it. Got to go to the fire. You got to deal with the complaints from the 75 year old of the great to dark for the screens to the music too loud or what have you. One thing that really hit me through this whole process was really asking the church. Are we a country club for Christians.

[00:53:06] Or are we a hospital for the sinners. And that's one thing that we we use as our model going forward and encourage everyone listening. Keep going forward keep going. And it's worth. Like herself a module 16. I'm excited. I'm excited about this. God has a plan. Thank God for see you both for sticking to this and you know 2014 is really just to help us out a lot. My church has probably realistically about 100 people including children. We just turned seven years old and is. It's been a fight. But man it's awesome. It's definitely. Helping. And like I like you know it's public event the follow up is key really engage with people really need to communicate with people. How do you get to you know put them into your church give them a purpose. So that's one of them. Awesome thanks man. And then my quick question is my mind just 16. What we did was in reach within our church. So maybe you going to use this as an example. When you're building your teams you have to train your teams to something going forward. You're going to reach out to your congregation that maybe just didn't buy the game all the way. And what we did was we set up a bunch of tables and we made banners for each team and we had people come down and we had cake no cookies and whatnot and we walked around and kind of like like if you're looking for a college to go to with your teenager and just ask what does this team have. What is this all about. And people are there just you know talking. And we did that a few weeks ago. We had probably about 12 people signed up to join our teams. And we are going to be having our first meeting with 12 people that are coming to our church that's coming to your church. Now they are already coming to let. Oh yeah that's 12 percent Dartmouth. Yes. So this is the thing is that like you said you're going to grow from it and out and you want to get your your church sold on this idea of this vision going forward. So my question for you is rather. I know my age of 16 17 18 and up are. Was. Talking about you know watching those videos individual the individual teams. Meeting this Sunday. So I only meet with a handful of teams and you know I have. Three different TVs in the church so I could connect the laptop to and have them watch three individual modules or should I just keep the whole group together and continue watching models together.

[00:56:13] That is a great question. And here's the thing as a volunteer I would be ready to throw you in a tub full of scissors if you make me watch two videos that don't have anything to do with me for you. How are you. Just but my volunteer hat on right now. One of the complaints about it about my church and the way that we do which I love to ministry I get to be involved in that they'll call a meeting and I'll go and sit in a meeting for hour and think that could have been a one paragraph e-mail. So. So you hate this. I think this is an important goal make I'm going to offend some of you right here probably. But I'm going to go ahead and do it because you I'm assuming like Derek you have you take two days off a week.

[00:56:56] You have a weekend.

[00:57:01] Touche. So so it matters. They take Friday and Saturday off and then they work this Sunday through through Thursday. Will I work I work Monday through Friday and sometimes part of the day on Saturday and then on Sunday I get up in the morning. We leave our house at 10 o'clock. I usually get home about 1:00 and then I'm back out of the church from about 345 to about 630 or 7. Do as long as I'm there all day long. My mom is a premium to me.

[00:57:33] And so when you're when you're working with volunteers make sure make sure you're always aware that people are giving up their second Saturday to volunteer at your tour. I call it second Saturday because people that don't people who are not Christians they have two days on the weekend that look identical Saturday and Sunday. Yeah because Saturday has a feel for Christians. Sundays got a different feel for Christians right. Both are good but they're just different for non Christians who Saturdays.

[00:58:02] Even your volunteers are given up second saturday to be able to come and volunteer and you need to make sure that you are as efficient as possible with their time because the minute they feel like you're not being considerate or that you're wasting their time you're going to start to lose some momentum with them.

[00:58:19] Yeah I hope that one too offensive. Yeah yeah good.

[00:58:25] I just got done doing. Like I said our seventh anniversary made it feels great. All 17 were involved. And I had the pranksters. We were you know everyone was kind of going full steam ahead. And then like Artman the next morning for a little while. Faster Appreciation Day coming up and it just so happened it fell this Sunday when I'm having my 21st. And you know I'm I'm asking the Lockerbie people like you just said I don't want to get in inferno.

[00:58:58] And yeah yeah it if you take care of him you will have that issue. Hey we got one more question here and I need to wrap this thing up so much.

[00:59:08] Eric and I think the last one is Keith IRI's Mariah rich.

[00:59:15] Real quick. I bet a lot of history was like You know Peter Wagner or Lyle Shaler or some very familiar with guests and deployment in regard to ministry according to those guests. So we tried the the breakfast for nearly eight months. Every single Sunday whether rain or shine somebody was there. Words which are about 100. And we would get people to show up. They would often come back probably you know 40 percent of the time we'd see people come back the next week which is still a pretty outstanding statistic for return of first time visitors. So they might come back they would go to the breakfast. They seem very excited about it. Very excited about the information we get in the church and a lot of them would say yes I think I would be passionate about this area. That area oftentimes it was something you know a person who a brand new Christian or not yet. So what if a Christian could do like greeting Set-Up tear down those kind of things. So anyway long story short what we began to discover was many would sign up not so and it wasn't. There wasn't a lack of somebody reaching out by text. And we're working through our follow up system now through search teams workflows and things like text and church that they're going to follow it up for almost six to ten weeks afterwards so we can do an Wakefields search marketing thing now. And anyway long story short we were not really seeing the even though they would sign up. They wouldn't necessarily show up and the other the other issue is kind of running into maybe going ahead of them one at a time. But the other issue we're kind of handy running into is money. We'll say they go to your church and we'll all show up on some of they'll say I'm a regular church attenders there. And even if you give them responsibility though and 20 minutes late is something we're supposed to be there 40 minutes early for. So I know some of it's a little bit of a target market that we're trying to reach with on the host. But having said that yeah we discovered and it really kind of demotivated a lot of the people that were doing our first two videos and getting excited about it and we'll have to have volunteers that say they're going to be there. Talk to them on the phone that weeks are going to be there and then never come and don't respond well to the follow up phone calls in terms of even answering the phone sometimes a second or third week what percentage.

[01:01:50] Yeah go ahead with our. Now what percentage of people are saying that they're signing up that don't show up.

[01:01:57] If I had to say how many. Boy you know I wish I could give you those metrics right off the top of my head but I can see what it feels like. Which may not be accurate.

[01:02:09] It feels worse. It might feel worse than it is but not to say it's not still a problem. But yeah go ahead I'm sorry. Finish your question. I'll give you my thoughts. I don't know if it's an answer or not.

[01:02:21] Yeah I am a hundred percent believer that you know when you get people involved in doing something people come and people do things for three reasons. There's a reward there's a relationship or there's a responsibility. That's my theory anyway. And so we're trying to build relationship which can't do it you know on one Sunday breakfast. And we're trying to follow up with relationship with people who are doing the follow. But the responsibility doesn't seem to be triggering. And I'd say we're probably seeing depends on the newness of the person and how connected they are to the people they came with. I guess we ask that question about will they show up and stay or will they not even bother to show up. So if they're highly connected to somebody else in the church and that relationship is kind of the one that's serving as their connecting point to whatever ministry we were discussing them it's probably much higher 60 70 percent.

[01:03:21] Well well hang in there and if not then it's much lower. It's literally you know 95 percent say they'll come in and they'll yes.

[01:03:33] So let me throw a bunch of stuff at you right here in a short period of time. OK so so in the world that I live in we look so most of the people that come into 2014 that will come through 11 or so we look at clickthrough rates on an ad we look at opt in. So click through opt in show up and then people that sign up.

[01:03:53] So we're not shutting funnels right now that's the next marketing.

[01:03:57] OK. So this is going to make perfect sense to you. So so when there's when you have a good click through and you have a good opt in and then you have a bad show up then then you focus on what's happening between those two things. So what I would tell you is it sounds to me like you're getting you're doing a pretty good job of getting people to sign up. So what I would start doing we use the term split. Yes but I would start adding in sumps something between the sign up and the show. Now let me tell you this. I had this technique worked on me one time with accounts or what I was. I went and spoke to this. I was trying out a couple of different counselors which I think is an incredibly healthy thing for all of us to be doing. But I went and talked to this counselor my dad was having some you know health issues in Afghanistan and it was affecting me in the way that I thought I should. So it wasn't really because I was I was like I'm not really feeling a lot about this and maybe oversharing on this call now I think about it but it's OK. So I go in with this guy. And to be honest with you the guy was a little weird and. And God loves weird people. I'm certain of it but I keep thinking the whole time is like man I am never coming back here again. When I got ready to leave he started going OK what do you want to come back in. I said well I'll get back with. He goes you're going to come back right. And I'm like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Well you know what he was do and he was he was he I think he had most of us want to be dependable. It's hardwired into us and what he was trying to do is get me to commit to something because. And then I started looking at letters like me anyway. And after that and I was telling somebody else about it and they're like you know that's a psychological technique right. And here's the thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with using some of those techniques. We're all wired the same way but getting people to when people say that their goal if they're still an out of court and signing up for something they handed it to you and they're leaving. That's not the same as going hey I'm going to be here and you can count on me. OK you're going to be here next. We can count on you which you've got to be careful why you do that with people that are new to your church or to feel weird. But I think what you can do is you can put some things after the sign up like the person that invited him. If I don't call it I'm going hey what do you think about that. Oh I didn't defend the other. OK great. I know one of the things they do in there is trying to figure out what people were wired for because they this jury believes that if you're doing volunteer ministry you're like don't get a lot better very quickly. So did they talk to you about that. Yeah they talk to me about this and then what. What did you think. And those are things that are easy to screw up. Three questions asking the three questions. What did what did you think about. Well I thought I don't know if I'm going to do or not or whatever it is. So that's the other thing the practical part of it if these are ministry. The first thing I would tell you is don't count on them don't count on any of them. Put them in ministry positions where they can earn their way into a dependable spot. But you're going to get them into a spot where if they show up nothing's broken. Now we have a plan B C and D. Yeah. And then number two is if half of the people don't show up then you need recruit twice as many people. I mean like you know that the numbers are you know we know that with our webinars 42 percent of people that sign up for the Web are going to show up. And so we we know that we just all of our numbers are based on on that. So it's one of those things we're like if you expect 100 percent of people to do what they say you're going to spend your life disappointed.

[01:07:08] Absolutely.

[01:07:09] You know and having long with that and keep this one short we have with implementing 24 that I shown the videos to the entire core you know. So they were on board with what we were doing. We were at least it was explained to them what we're doing and we got the head nods. So you know mentalists but I'm thinking of now we have some leaders are doing a great job following up calling making sure people are going to be there what have you or at least attempting that we have other leaders thinking of like are set up leader who somehow became a leader in the last five years because he's the most faithful. He's just there. He knows where everything goes. Long story short I showed up early because that team is struggling a little bit to say hey I must show some sort of shocker extra early set up with the guys waiting period on afterwards and you know he's kind of scolding me about where things go and don't go in a negative way but just like you said they're just out there. And I'm thinking to myself we have a perceived leader and like things aren't carefully labeled so if we're ever going to get new leadership in that team. Something's got to give with that particular leader because he's not onboarding people and he's not he's not really Grof he's got probably a cleric personality but he's just you know hey just put that out there it's easier rather than stop it some time to show somebody how it's working.

[01:08:42] He's

[01:08:42] just eager to get the job done and get out of there. And I'm not sure how we can grow team with that kind of leadership.

[01:08:51] Egotistically emplace I guess is what I'm saying.

[01:08:54] So I'm not sure what you got. I think you've got to go right at it you know in the in his best interest because this is an opportunity for you to leverage your influence with this individual to help them grow. Because here's the thing. You're saying something that everybody else in that dude's life has seen. And here's the thing because he's that because I'm kind of that way too. I'm a whore got a coach right. I have guys in my life that I constantly go you have permission you have permission to speak. I've done it with my team. Just say how are you Jessica. Who's listening right now. She has to switch into council mode from time to time. I mean you stopped doing that with tougher personalities that can be a bit more difficult but I'll just say hey let me be real transparent about you you said that and it caught me the wrong way and I started to get offended and I thought you know what I'm not going to get offended I'm going to use this as a moment for you to grow in this relationship. Celeste let's talk about that a little bit. Let's talk about what I saw. Let's talk about whether or not that's happening a lot. And the impact that it's having on this team and the rest of your life. Maybe I should.

[01:09:58] This guy is in his 70s which makes it even more difficult.

[01:10:02] Oh I've got a better technique for you that. And I hope there's guys on this call that are that age and older and somebody could do this. I'm 47 somebody could do this with me as well. When people are older they want the opportunity to invest. So I think you approach that conversation by going hey can you help me with something. And a hat and the hand conversation hey help me with this. You know I'm trying to grow as a leader and you know sometimes I feel like when I'm the main guy and then you know when somebody puts me in my place I have a challenge with it and this is kind of what I heard. What do you think about that is there any. You know I know that what you can you can help me with like use the whole thing by saying Help me help me help me out. That will work with anybody but especially with people that are have grown to the age where they feel like people don't value them. I think if you lead by valuing them you can make a lot of progress.

[01:10:57] That's good. That's getting engaged and problem solving that makes sense.

[01:11:00] Yeah yeah it probably will work with anybody key. So that will probably just for me to say it would only work with older people it would work with young people.

[01:11:09] No but it's true that you know people get to a point of generativity where they want to feel like they're able to speak into other people's lives and shape things because they can't do what they used to do anymore. So yeah that makes sense.

[01:11:19] Well the reality is there are a library of experience. Yes there's a ton of there's a ton. I mean a lot of things have changed but there's a lot of stuff that's still the same you know. And having somebody be able to take step back and go Hey this is it always fascinates me. You very rarely see somebody at that age that doesn't have faith. Not saying it doesn't happen some you know people are 70 and 80 years old and their fate is stronger than any other point in life. You have to take a step back from it go OK. Everything this person.

[01:11:51] This is what this person believes. Pretty pretty right I guess. Let's go just have you guys thought about doing something in terms of because I know the standard approach before for like building growing quickly is like mass mail or friend day. That kind of thing. If you guys thought about doing a module on Facebook Marketing pixel you know things like pixels on your Web site or have I.

[01:12:17] We have a product called Facebook for church that is outdated. I caught it live a couple of years ago. Here's the thing. After I did that outcome here's welcome it. I will I will strongly consider thinking about it today doing that again. Here's why. Here's why I haven't done it again. The last two times I've built a product for Facebook. They literally change the user interface. As I was editing the last video it is maddening how fast they are like they are like what am I. It was a lot of training and we'll just all get on the call. And I'll just run through like what I would do because you're right. Man everybody Facebook is the most powerful marketing platform that the world has ever seen and it is. You can reach your city or you put your face in front of people for pennies in front of people that are within a 10 mile 20 mile radius of your church. I mean Joseph a target for yes very very. Yeah. Take a message to people. I should've said this earlier and I'll end with this. The idea that millennials don't want to come and that regular church attendance is once a month and there is a lot of distraction. There's a lot of regular church attendance is not what not what it once was.

[01:13:33] The opposite side of that is we have the opportunity to impact everybody 24 hours a day seven days a week. Now never in the history of mankind have we had the opportunity to be able to literally I mean we've had thousands of people watch videos this week thousands of them. So. So it absolutely. Hey I tell you what I'll strongly consider putting that train training together for our members and I'll show you an e-mail if you're interested in e-mail.

[01:13:59] We're actually in the process of I heard another caller talking about like plan your visit. Yeah. Rebuilding our entire Web site around some of the newer trends today and using some of the teams like church church claims you know. Boyd Kelly over there is doing a task job that we're trying to get a system together that will do the outreach and kind of some of the follow up marketing automation in some ways so that we're getting those touches so we can spend the time building the personal relationships that we need to build otherwise. So I get a chance to issue your personal e-mail and would love to. Thanks. Thanks for that. I'll give you some ideas of what what we're encountering as we run and I'd love. Love it. God bless you brother. Thanks.

[01:14:43] Thanks. Hey I wanted to just tell everybody else on the call. Sorry about that. This is why the call by saying this I talked about doing some training that I did with John Maxwell tribe yesterday. Here's what I'll do. I've already done the training so I will get the video of that I think it's video and audio. I'll get the video and audio of that for you and I'll make that available to you somewhere maybe on 20 portable. That way you can listen to that and watch it while you're rolling down the road. Or maybe I'll put it on the podcast. I'll find a way to get it to you and get that over to you if you're listening to this on the podcast. And you want to know more about 2014. You can find us at 24 trial dot com dot com. Everything you need to know about 24toDouble will be on that site. Thanks so much pastors for being with us and joining us again next Thursday we'll have Jerry on do this do this party again. Thanks.