24toDouble Members, Joe Dobbins

24D 13: Live 24toDouble Members Q&A With Alumni & Lead Pastor Joe Dobbins

Call Notes from 24toDouble Members' Q&A

  • What are some creative and inexpensive ways to help the Team Leaders implement their teams.
  • What are some ways to reach the African-American community?
  • What are the most important teams to focus on while we are growing?
  • How do I get people involved in the Pastor’s Breakfast?
  • 5 Levels of Leadership – John Maxwell
  • Is there a certain time I need to give the Gifts and Passions test?
  • When is the best time to do the Pastor’s Breakfast?

 

Transcript +
[00:00:00] You're listening to the 24toDouble the Internet's most passionate growth. And now here's your host Richard Chancy.

[00:00:23] Today we've got an incredible guest Joe Dobbins. Joe went through 24toDouble several years ago and this helped us coach pastors and churches on this process. So stay tuned for that.

[00:00:35] Also if you want more information about 24 to double you can go to 24toDouble.com or just check us out at doublechurch.com. Now let's get to it. Well hey everybody this is Richard chancy with 24 to double. And I am pumped today not because Jerry can't be with us I don't know if he gets all the e-mail or not but Jerry is actually on a trip to Israel and let me know last week that he wasn't going to be able to make it. Didn't realize that this was the third Thursday. And he said Hey why don't I get one of our alumni to join you on the call. And for those of you that have been around a while you know we've done this one other time probably a year and a half ago with Malcolm Carter and it wound up being one of the best pastor's Q&A's that we've had. And so I just wanted to welcome Joe and before I let him jump on and kind of tell you who he is and what his experience with 24toDouble is if you're new to this whole process how you get in the queue as you hit star six on your phone. And then when it's your turn will prompt you and you can jump on and answer your question live. So if you've got questions and you want to jump on today's a good day to do that in fact it's a great day to do it because it's July and we traditionally have this. These communities are not attended as well in the summer as they are in the fall spring and winter.

[00:01:48] So if you've got questions or you're new to the process and you just want to ask somebody that has actually been there and done it. Today's the day for that so. Hey Joe. And now let me tell you this Joe Dobbins is the lead pastor at Twin Rivers Worship Center in St. Louis. I interviewed Joe on it's probably been a year and a half or two years ago now which probably means it was for some reason. When you get older that's you know what seems like two years ago was a decade. So Joe thanks for being with us today and why don't you just kind of enlighten the folks on what your experience of 24 has been.

[00:02:23] You're It's an honor to be with everybody today.

[00:02:26] You know I've been a part of 24toDouble's Church Growth Process for some time now actually probably close to 7 years in multiple in use in multiple generations. And really honestly in multiple areas of the country believe as much in a day as I ever have. And you know I think it is one of the most comprehensive ways to help someone take their church to the next level. A lot of you know blogs and systems and even the structures are being sold in a lot of different. But this is something from front to back just once again. One of the most comprehensive way to help structure your church long term large growth and so I've been you know really that currently you know our live in St. Louis Missouri have used it in various ways and helped coach people through the process. We're just big believers and really because it works. And so looking forward to getting into some of these questions.

[00:03:28] Super. Hey let me ask you this. We've got people starting to get in the queue if you just got on which quite a few of you did you can get Star Sex on your phone and get in the queue. If I if my memory serves me right Joe you inherited 24 double or you got put on it by your senior pastor before you were the lead passer by.

[00:03:46] That's right.

[00:03:47] I served on staff for several years and and we were in a place where our church was in massive decline and we needed to do something drastic. And so our pastor at the time got connected point border double and really handed the whole project to the I really wouldn't suggest now that I fully understand that it does have to be passed or led. But as we were kind of working through it what I am grateful for is give me an opportunity to learn from from some of the people who helped write the original material learn directly from Pastor Terry. And it really opened my eyes to this really incredible thing. So from there I actually on Jerry's behalf helped work through some of the material making it better. I was able to be a part of that process and then when I became a pastor we used it consistently. You know the principles that are around 24 are double even today so it really has been great for me.

[00:04:43] That's awesome. OK let's go ahead and jump in and start answering some questions now and again Star six on your phone to get in the queue.

[00:04:51] And all right if you're not if your area code you're up oh hello I'm looking Vaugier me.

[00:05:02] Yes.

[00:05:02] And tell us your name and your first name before you ask your question if you don't mind yes or my name is the likeness of Taylor. I'm the senior minister of the north bound Church of Christ in Jacksonville Florida. It's a Church of Christ in some of the traditional sense if you're familiar sure. And go ahead. My question and I kind of wrote it down for I don't know if we all do. One question about how this will work.

[00:05:32] You keep asking questions until we figure out that we don't know the answers to them and then we'll do we'll move on.

[00:05:40] OK. All right bye.

[00:05:41] My first question will be how what are some creative ways to help the team the spine. Very inexpensive too maybe free means of carrying out their ministry work so that they won't always win on the offer. I also need to add we've been around for a year now. We're a very deep church of about a hundred and thirty to 170 on Hi.

[00:06:11] Well that sounds great. But you know one of the things naturally are budget limitations and so let me talk about that just from a couple angles because it's a real thing that you have to navigate but it won't go away even once your budget grows because a growing church always has budget problems. They're always serving more people than they have money. The people who are giving and so the first thing I would say is the number one don't shy away from empowering your key leaders with some level of oversight over some financials. You know he who controls the money really has the control. And if you're going to build leaders not followers but leaders in your local church you do have to release some of that financial control to them. Now what do I mean by that I mean that could be as simple as saying you have two hundred dollars a year to work with. I mean it could be a simple thing you have $100 dollars a year at just some form or fashion if it's really less about the amount and it's more about the gesture gesture that I'm giving you a forward. Not just responsibility. And I know that inside of us sometimes we think if I give them that money they don't know how to use it. Their young leaders are there. They don't know how church works. Sometimes we have to find people failures in order to get them to become the leader that we need them to be. And so some of the greatest lessons I ever learn were when a leader gave me a little bit of money.

[00:07:39] I made the wrong decision with it. But it taught me and so I don't look at it ever is wasted money. Look at it a seminary for that leader. So I would say you don't shy away from it. Number two is I think that limitation needs innovation. And so what I would say about that is let's get the circle a little bigger meaning of the people who could help come up with creative ways to fund some of these ideas. I know that for me a lot of times I just think in one direction but there are people who see the world a completely different way who could end up helping me come up with ideas. And so you know a practical example would be you know let's say that someone wants to buy equipment for the parking space you really want your parking to look great. And so you're considering we don't have money to buy radios. We don't have money to buy you know cones. And this is just hypothetical. You know you pull a couple of people win. And let's just brainstorm how we can really do something excellent. But with a limited budget and what you may find is that people say well you know I've got these old you know kind of you know the orange jackets or orange best better than in my basement. And I know that up you know I saw this at a certain place or we could just use kid's radio. I think the idea of broadening the circle where people would get more minds on the problem could be something that helps you a whole lot.

[00:09:00] But those are just kind of a couple of initial thoughts that you maybe have a follow up or specific to that.

[00:09:05] Well hey let me let me throw something on top of that too with just my experience with this. And this may not be the issue but I think it bears it's worth being said. I think when you're developing these teams and you're giving people ownership of something be careful not to take it back in the ideation face and the reason that's important is because they when it's their idea that equals ownership when it comes to leadership. When we when we want to execute an idea then we've got heart and soul in it and the heart and you know Jessica is listening my assistant to this call and she's like you need to take that on your own medicine. When you give stuff up don't take it back. And I get that Jessica. But but here's the bottom line when you let people own things that means you let them sink or swim with those ideas and then I think the other thing especially I think this works well and a nonprofit world and this is a terrible analogy so bear with me but it's a tip jar methodology. I don't know if you guys have been to chipotle or Moze or anywhere like that where you go through and you get your food and when you get down to the end they're checking out they've got their tip jar there. There's always a couple of bucks in it right. They've basically they prime their tip jar.

[00:10:10] And the reason I tell you that is you don't have to give people enough budget to do everything but if you give them enough budget to get started you might be interested to see that when their idea is being thought through. And if we're not able to fund it you might you might see some additional funding that comes in from people that might not otherwise give if it weren't to the idea that they bring into the table to reach people who are far from God. So it's something to think about realizing that when they begin to solve the problems they will not just get committed from a time standpoint they'll also get committed financially.

[00:10:43] And if I can add those are great points. I think it's important depending on which team it is to lead them back to. Does is what you're requesting or what you want. Is it really going to make that difference. And let me just give you an example. You know if you're talking about kind of the media department or the media team what you call it you know that. Yeah. I mean naturally they need money to pull off. They need equipment. Things like that. But I do think it's human nature especially in some of the late leaders that they that you know it seems like they want to accomplish. But the low hanging fruit is well let's Foster and I think it's important as a leader sometimes to come back to them and say hey as the first impressions seem you know what we dress in is not near as important as are we smiling gauging at connecting to people. Small group leaders is not near as important that we have the latest curriculum as that we are making connections with people praying with one another encouraging. So sometimes I think that leaders want to buy stuff which again is reasonable but we need to always make sure to bring them back and teach them that the most impactful thing often is just how we execute. We always say this at our church. Excellence is not what I have in my hand. It's what I do out of my heart. And so there's a lot of ministry improvement just in the way of us dedicating ourselves and trying to do better than just in buying new stuff.

[00:12:12] Great and what was your next question. Or did we answer that one.

[00:12:16] Will I have enough. I have reasons for this. Next question is does something that may help me as a leader to. What are an inexpensive way to reach the African-American community and what I mean. We recently bought this building and I was looking at the income in this area is about 40 down here per capita about half an hour a year. And I say I'm asking this question because sometimes I'm a little disappointed that I don't live in that area I'm a now. I kind of live in a much different area where the median income about $20000.

[00:13:14] OK.

[00:13:15] How do you live. How do I do. Well maybe some idea that you had to have is this though. How how how can I reach out to them and stay connected with the issues they might be facing so that I can you know appeal to them and get them in building good work and for the Lord.

[00:13:37] Sure. Well I think you know kind of all the details aside there are some basic principles that that you're asking about.

[00:13:45] You know one of the things is when we don't live in the community that we're directly serving or even if you're not a part of say that generation that you're targeting you know there's questions there's disconnect. And so I it's a common question of the same principle what you're asking that I get from pastors who say you know I'm of a certain age say several two or three generations ahead of millennials. How do I connect with millennials. And one of the things I think that I've seen just practically work really well is a senior pastor making 10 minute time to hear from who he's trying to reach and so that could be as simple as you find four or five people who know what Rick Warren used to call Saddleback Sam. So you know he was a prototypical of who they were hoping to reach. If you find a you know what. You know a person a couple of people and I say once a month can I take you to lunch and just talk to you about where you are in life what are the things that you are passionate about what you think. You know I feel like there's a lot to be learned there especially you know being around millennials helps you understand better. Being around people in that community are going to help you see some of the unique things that exist in that community. So just you know some coffee time at Starbucks lunch once a month and just asking really good questions will start to give you the ability to see a theme through their comments. Well everybody in this area struggles with money management.

[00:15:10] So all of a sudden you want to launch you know a sermon series on money management you know in that way or offer small groups some money management or everybody in this area it has a super high divorce rate. And so we need the best counter the Borsch rate by launching more marriage groups or more merit based sermon's things like that. So that would be the initial is that headed in the direction of what you were asking.

[00:15:33] Yes. Yes I'm taking notes right now I'd like to know.

[00:15:37] And let me let me throw on top of it what I think would be Jerry's response to that question. How do you reach. It doesn't matter what group it is. Any group and I think what Joe is saying of having like an ideal member avatar or a couple of member avatars so that you know specifically it is the gods called you to reach and I used to do this with churches before we do construction projects because we go into a construction project we do a vision planning part and then go into this ideal member Avatar. And the reason I did it for selfish reasons because I knew we were going to have conversations down the road that were heated over really things that don't matter of paint colors and carpet and that kind of stuff and it was easy to pull them back to center when I knew what their ideal member was. But but when I think Jerry would tell you is this you can read different stats on this but more than 80 percent of people when polled said they would come to church if invited. So the best strategy ever going to have is the free one. And so what Jerry would tell you I think and he can correct me if I'm wrong. Did he tell you to figure out how to preach a sermon series on one inviting and how it's the responsibility of people that are believers to give serve and invite their friends. You know that there's a response that that is not demanded there's a response. Somebody somebody gave up their kid for you. Every time you saw him you'd have a response.

[00:16:54] Well I mean we as Christians we should have a response to what Jesus did. And that response is giving serving in and inviting and so preaching a sermon a sermon series on it and in the middle of that sermon series to go back and reemphasize something that Joe said I think make sure your church is ready when when people come. I just had a friend tell me this way this guy I've been to he didn't live close to me but when I told it to him I asked him you know are you guys getting back in church. Oh we're trying to do this and they they tried out a new church and this literally just happened. They went into the church sat down and somebody came up to him and told him they were in their seats. So they got up and they left. They didn't even stay for the services. And I was thinking Man does that still happen. And apparently it does. So all I'm saying is in the middle of your you should be investing in inviting people in the middle of that you know making sure that everybody knows if you see somebody that you don't know. Make sure you reach out to him and if you come in and somebody sitting in your seat sit down somewhere else and pray for him you know that was stronger than I want it to be. The other thing he would tell you I think is big events are a great reason for people to invite their friends.

[00:18:01] They need a reason to invite their friends and they need to know what's coming up so that they can say you should come because you know they have to have a reason to invite their friends and if you've got a big event coming up that's exciting maybe it's focused around kids. That's a really easy ask for friends that they already have influence with hate star six on your phone if you want to get into the queue. There's about 40 of us on here now and nobody else is in the queue. So we're going to keep answering questions until we get somebody else in the queue. So OK.

[00:18:31] Next question I do have one more. Well if you're curious right now when is the next one is because we currently have. I would ask me about 15 percent of the mere members do and about 100 percent of the work. Right. What are the most important one that we look forward to the whole system to concentrate on so that I can get the numerical Loffredo. So I'm hoping that there are more volunteers if we can do this growing.

[00:19:05] Yeah.

[00:19:06] Well that's that's a great question because you know the size of your church determines the kind of the mobility but also the way you can resource at the time and so you've got to make sure you get your bang for your buck if you will. I really feel like a church of that size two to kind of a double sided and I'm going to give you is number one. I feel every church that does 24 hour double discovers about it. Well kind of what naturally what seems form naturally because of just the existing culture and what themes they're going to struggle with. So some churches are naturally they just immediately get around big events quicker than other churches. But then some other churches get around you know small groups quicker or worship quicker and so you have a natural DNA at some of your team should just be coming really easy because the natural part of just who your church is and then you have the weaknesses. And so you have to address building those weaknesses up and you may have to spend more of your leadership there or for some of your more dedicated leaders there. But one of the things I would say you've got to get more people coming through the door. So if you come on you know this is that desert island scenario where you know you can only have limited things you got to get more people coming through the door. New people are your churches best resource because they are most excited about what's happening. And number two they have the most lost or unsaved friends and family.

[00:20:35] And so I feel like that those big events have to be proud already and have to be executed at a high level in order to really spur on the rest of the teens in the 24 to double process.

[00:20:51] Yeah and I would say in addition to that that's the outreach team and the fall team they work hand-in-hand. And so the outreach team also covers the volunteer recruitment and putting people in right seats on the bus and that kind of thing. And we talk about this Jerry talks about this in the training the 80:20 principle. You're right in line with the 80 20 percent Presby 15 percent of people do it a hundred percent of the work. The good news is if you get 15 more people that are fully engaged like those other 15 people your church is going to double. Bad news is you're never going to have more than 20 percent of people doing 80 percent of the work is just the way that it works out.

[00:21:29] And if I could add just something on the idea of how we recruit people a lot of times when we a lot of churches suffer from what I consider to be kind of one level of recruitment meaning we just ask it in one way and often that's through the pulpit. You know we get up and say we need people to sign up.

[00:21:48] We need people to serve really the kind of drive down deeper than that and I make that go to number one. There are a group of people in your church who will not serve every week or even twice a week on a regular schedule but Bell served during a specific. So a lot of churches miss out on a percentage let's call it 10 20 percent of the church who would give them a month around Easter or a month around Christmas. And so think of it in those terms. I'm not looking for long term every week or are long term biweekly servants. I'm also looking for people who will give me a season of serving the second. Another level will drive down the is is existing groups in the church. Sometimes we we go out recruiting for these teams by individual you know where we're trying to build the outreach team or the first impressions team one person at a time. Well there are there are some preexisting groups already in your church that you could tap into for instance a Sunday school class a small group a men's ministry a women's ministry and if you came to the whole group and said we would like for you to own you know first impressions on the first and third are or we would like for you to.

[00:23:00] That's a great way to also execute events to get the whole church involved is to go to preexisting groups and there's already a relational connection there. You may pick up five people at one time or eight people or 12 people that are willing to give you you know a couple of weeks around a big event. And then here's the last level. You've got to create a culture from yourself and from your leaders that asks people to serve individually. People hide in crowds and that's why pulpit announcements often don't work the day before service and after service are so important. Rick Warren writes and purpose driven church that when polled Gallup did a poll 40 percent of people said that they would consider serving if asked individually. So there's a big chunk of your church that that is willing to serve but maybe they've just not been asked the right way. And so maybe we want to do a campaign or just build a long term culture where 20 minutes before service 20 minutes after service we're in the lobby and we're asking people hey have you ever you know you've got a beautiful smile. Have you ever considered being on the first impressions. Or are you saying you know kids are naturally attractive. Have you ever considered serving on the the children's thing. These are really really important things to consider it to broaden what is now 15 percent for you that I think you could get well above 15 percent if you if you start to ask in some different ways.

[00:24:25] It Or in my life that the degree that Jerry teaches and 24 to double is one of the positions on the teams is a recruiter. So that recruiter their job is wake up every day and think about how to get more people on that team and I know in my church the ministry that I'm involved in which is a high school ministry we we are not doing a great job of recruiting. We've got small groups that have 40 kids and you know which is a what's a church plan you know in a lot of places. So being able to recruit enough volunteers and there's a ton of them there's just nobody that wakes up every day and that's the primary thing that they're thinking about. OK. What was your what was your next question.

[00:25:01] The last question you. Well I'm doing the workshop leader today.

[00:25:09] And my song leaders lie on the system that talks about nothing in the song. Within a month which I think is all. But the question is why help them to understand the business of planning their songs and and how they actually sing a song they can't sing without them feeling like they're not leaving room for this period to have its way.

[00:25:37] Could you repeat the very last part of that question. There was I think the conference call was meeting and meetings.

[00:25:43] There was a lot of wind noise on your end I'm sorry Joe. Yeah.

[00:25:46] I'm so sorry. Yeah go ahead. Go ahead and repeat it.

[00:25:49] OK. Well it's how do I help the song leaders or the praise and worship leaders that are singing. I understand the benefits of planning their songs out and not actually how they will sing the songs that they're singing without them feeling like we're not leaving room for inspiration of the spirit or for the spirit to move them in a new direction.

[00:26:14] OK. Well you know a couple of things.

[00:26:18] We were a church that you know has a charismatic background and so I understand very much what you're talking about that there is a level of spontaneity that people really have come to you know I guess you could say value at a high level you know from a spiritual standpoint I would say you know I always try to answer a lot of these questions Scripturally because I think it helps people feel like you know a comfort level is that when for instance when God gives instructions for the tabernacle rebuild he doesn't call for unskilled people. He calls for a very specific set of guild people. So first of all you know of worship when God establishes that pattern and the Old Testament the Old Testament just a ritual that comes of reality in the New Testament. If he was looking for skilled people then he's looking for people now. And so so the idea of just well he wants to thing well you know there's a skill that honors everybody seemed to think well. The second thing I would say is there's an enormous amount of details in the tabernacle and those details helped its function at its best to help connect the most people to God. And so I would I would help that team understand that preparation. Great. Excellent. And that when we understand in advance that we're going to be doing these three songs this week those three songs next week there's been any kind of a month's worth of scheduling. It helps us to begin to pray over them.

[00:27:43] It helps us begin to practice them and it helps us to produce them with an a new level of excellence. And especially if there are laypeople I would almost say you know swinging around again hey you're not here full time. So we want to give you as much information as ahead of time as possible to make sure that you have the time to put in. I don't want you showing. You know finding out what we're saying and I want you to know well in advance that you can do your best and then and then after that what I would say is that planning does not mean that the Holy Spirit is not invited it means he's invited earlier into the process. So a lot of times we mistake spiritual for late and that's not having the Holy Spirit knows when I will preach you know 15 years from now. He knows what he wants to hear us thing you know seven months from now. And so we're just inviting the Holy Spirit into the process earlier and and doing that. And here's the thing. It's a plan. It's not you know stone tablets. If you feel like the Holy Spirit the day of wants you to sing a different song you know that you know that that is something that you know working with you to plan that worship service that you can create the freedom to do.

[00:28:55] But sometimes I think we want to create absolutes and the truth is that you know it's a plan that we're inviting the Holy Spirit into our leader.

[00:29:04] That's great. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:29:07] Thanks for your questions. OK let's move on to the next asteroid. This is Dimitri Norwood.

[00:29:14] Hey guys how's it going. Good. How are you doing.

[00:29:18] All right. I'm a little bit of background although on this in the making the SR implemented when I'm done with it going at it for about two months now things are going great. But of the possible we're just not having. So the more I know about it than our video bullets are doing now. I about.

[00:29:54] Oh my.

[00:29:55] We all know we're talking about it is not becoming you know back. I know it had perfect when I know exactly what it is and we're not going to give up on it. But I'm getting extremely discouraged because I'm not going to be. What you recommend. Be quick. I'm going once a week but every other week.

[00:30:19] And deal with them.

[00:30:24] Hey I'm sorry Joe. We're getting a lot of background noise on your end.

[00:30:29] I'm not. I'm trying to give me about one minute and I'm going to try to find a basically indoor facility that I was trying to quiet just one second there that's ok mostly.

[00:30:38] OK Dimitri let me clarify because you got a little salt there in the middle as well. Are you talking about with your pastor's breakfast.

[00:30:45] Right. Right. Pass that breakfast. OK. And you're doing it. You do it twice a month right now.

[00:30:51] Well you know we start out once a week and didn't really didn't see any from it. So now we moved it back to one I'm sorry twice a month and still haven't been seen you know any fruit. And so I just don't know if I'm doing them wrong. I'm buying you know the breakfast you know out of my own pocket which isn't that I'm for I'm not worried about it. It's just I'm just not seeing the fruit from from our labor.

[00:31:20] OK so you want me through the process or you standing on stage you talking about the pastor's breakfast from there who are you inviting to the pastor's breakfast. And then what are you doing.

[00:31:30] OK what's the problem.

[00:31:33] We're imbibing of course our first nonattendance from Casablancas. Just to let them know that the bailable for them you know the next Sunday or you know the next week and then everyone who's been there pretty much what we started doing when I've been there for year. You're more than welcome to come.

[00:31:54] So that's where we've been kind of doing it because everybody else has been there you know for a while. Right. And so they know everything about our church.

[00:32:00] And so you know in the last month we've had you'd meet a lot of people come to the door and you know we just started doing the pass and breakfast but on a couple of months ago and you want art and I'm pumped about it I'm out. I know our leaders are talking about it. And so we move on.

[00:32:24] Yeah. So what I would do is I would I would take a step back from and I'll let Joe speak to this when he gets back on. But I would take a step back from it make sure that you have that you have a strategic plan for how you're doing this and that. And when I say strategic plan that sounds super high tech but it's you can do this on the back of a napkin if you want. But starting to really outline where all the places that we're talking about this and then what do we drive into next because you may need to draw people to to you know some churches draw people to a next station in their church and you've got volunteers that's basically like information central you're driving people to that. People come for the first time and you give them a mug or whatever then you invite them and you get them to commit to it. Because a lot of people don't know this but when people say they'll do something they're like three times more likely to do it than if you ask them and they go yeah we'll try you know if you say hey you you're going to show up and you know here's a couple of slots that are available and you could drop them too. I think Jerry would tell you that go into twice a month or or once a month to draw people in there as you're beginning to kind of build a momentum and it has a lot to do with the size of your church as well.

[00:33:28] It's completely acceptable as long as you have that environment that is kind of that transition period for people because the worst two things that can happen when people come to church for the first time is that they don't come back or they come back and they don't go forward. I mean they get stuck by you know defending their seat on Sunday morning. So I think those are the two biggest challenges. So you got to have that catalyst environment. The other thing I would encourage you to do is to start letting it start. So we give you the gifts and passions test so you can use that as kind of the catalyst for getting people out of rows and into volunteer positions. Well eventually Jerry Jerry sometimes in a church it makes sense to test everybody at once but that means also that you need to be able to leverage that momentum into putting people on the teams. It depends on the size of your church but it might be a good idea to start hand selecting some people to push them into that environment to just to give them the gifts and passions test casts and vision for them and get them into a place in ministry that's going to add a crazy amount of value to their lives. And at the same time provide some ministry to some people that are coming into the church so I think this is the way we do it. And it just so everybody knows I run the online part of 24 to double. And I did a lot of church consulting in my years. I have not grown in church.

[00:34:41] So keep that in mind what my job is is to wake up every day and break things and then fix them. And then with the pastors breakfast it works a little bit differently in every church. And I think you've got to you've got it up and running now you've got the system in place. The broken part is on the front and so figuring out how to start testing some other stuff. Keep doing what you're doing but then go OK maybe here's another way to do this maybe we need to do a handwritten note maybe we need to draw people to some sort of opt in form so that they can register for this thing so that way you know.

[00:35:12] You know if we don't have any people signed up maybe we don't have it you know. But at the same time that's a ministry area for some people in your church and you don't want the ministry. The weeks that you have it nobody shows up. That's that's when it's like being hungry when you're trying to lose weight. That's when you earn it you earn the right to move people in their relationship with Christ on the weeks that nobody shows up and you're still doing ministry.

[00:35:36] Well you know and all those are great insights. A couple of things that I would add. My wife works at a church several years ago had the same issue so we had to she was a part of that team actually in a week that she would show up and no one would show up and so we had to work through maybe even more than some other team. You're also managing the psychological kind of morale of the people who are serving that to you. So let me just say a couple of things. Number one you need to make sure your expectations are right. Sometimes our worst enemy is our own expectations. You know people who expect the double in one year are people who expect pastors breakfast at 15 people every week but their church is a people. So percentage wise you need to make sure that you have the right expectations. Realize of course there are seasons the pastors breakfast there are times that you know after Easter that is higher during the summer it goes into a desert period. In some ways the second thing I would say is look at it this way every big event gives you a whole new set of light potentially And as the further you get from that big event the more those lead kind of you know basically go away because people you know have chosen to make a different decision or that in a different way. Here's the second thing I would say the devil is in the details and you can believe everything is going right.

[00:37:04] But kohm it really. And what I mean by that and Richard touched on this is you know our phone calls are the cards going are the invitations taking place all those micro that lead to people taking big steps. And so if all you're doing is the video announcements or just an announcement from the Pope it it's probably not enough.

[00:37:27] Or as the pastor or high level leader in your church you can assume they're happening because people say they are but are they really happening. Are those the micro details happening and the other thing I would say is broaden your invite list. Some times I've seen some churches say after they're a first time offender they didn't come back one time or not invite them again at our church. We have a list of where people will get regular invites monthly for six months after their visit until we see them take the next step. So just because a person didn't come the direct week right after you should have the kind of a roster if you will of six months worth of people who you. Because in my opinion Richard could speak to this. I think people are taking longer to take their first step than ever before in local churches. Yeah I think that the Schopper mentality is so prevalent today that people are a little bit. It's not as quick as it once was. Here's the third thing I would say is make sure you're selling it as something that people want to buy. Naturally people like meeting the pastor but we really saw a high high participation increase when we started saying this is a place you can discover your gifts and talents. This is a place you can you know you get to take as spiritual gifts to us. And you know people's favorite subject is themselves.

[00:38:44] And so when you get to learn something about themselves and you start selling that versus learn about the church or learn more about what we believe or how we're structured I found that people receive that better. And so sell it high. Make sure to celebrate that when you are having you know that that people do know it has had some wins and then the last thing I would put your leaderships through with and and what I mean by that is we we basically we need our elders our deacons our high level leaders to help us push people from their interactions to pastors breakfast. The problem is you often won't push anybody to something you've not experienced even though you might be informed about it you may know when it takes place you may know the theory behind it but you have an experience that you're less likely to let other people help other people experience it and so systematically. And this is a great thing to do during the down season. So during the summer put leadership through it I'm going to have these five elders go through these five volunteers of these five greeters anywhere that people interact with the potential of yes follow up team first impressions team you know even if it's team you know outreach team put those people through pastors breakfast because the more information they've had the more they've experienced it the more likely they are to reinforce what you're saying and announcements and help push people through it.

[00:40:08] OK. Man that was big. Appreciate it.

[00:40:11] Hey one other thing. I love what you said right there Joe sell it like as if some people want to buy and you know it's so this I think this is a fact. It may not be but it probably is. Every single person that comes to the doors of your church they want to know one thing.

[00:40:25] Why am I here. I think it's it's a universal question that people ask about themselves. We've got the answer. We know we know why while we're here is to glorify God. And I think you can use the pastor's breakfast. You can basically say hey you want to know why you're here. Nine o'clock Sunday morning. Don't miss it.

[00:40:44] You know and that can be. And then you can have people from your church people that have been through this process understand their spiritual gifting now they're serving in church you can have them come in and do a 10 minute testimony and then have people take that test. So they say this is when I really because I let me tell you this when I took that test the first time I've been served in my church for about 16 years in different positions when I took that test it was about three years after I started doing high school ministry and it said I should be doing high school ministry. Now I got to save myself a whole lot of years of doing other things which were good. They were functions and I was capable of doing those things. Directing traffic and leading New Believers group. But the thing that God created me to do in ministry was to lead a group of high school boys and help people understand that creates powerful testimonies that helps people overcome the fact that they got to go to work somewhere for 40 hours a week doing something that they're not passionate about. So that environment can do all of that.

[00:41:40] That answer is foreign to me as well because you know I give all my leaders as a result and I to interpret them a little bit. But I guess maybe going deeper to the actual application that you know once you find it I was like OK instead of just feeling like I'm just wrong people into that area where that you know where they're testing that it would be good. You know how can we mature them in that area.

[00:42:07] How can we develop in an area that way they'd be more effective on the road. Maybe that's a bit be another question. That's another one.

[00:42:26] Yeah. And here's this is what I would just tell you about that kind of stuff. This is a hard muscled to develop and it is for me to somebody speak out of both sides of my mouth default to letting other people figure it out. I mean that's what leadership basically is giving other people influence over an outcome.

[00:42:45] And I said that earlier. But when it comes to OK how do we how do we integrate new people. I think you're dead on that needs to happen in any ministry in your church when somebody comes on New You don't need to just go there and this is what happened with me and you know I'm leading a group of high school boys I got 30 boys in my first group ninth grade boys which is you know they're like terrorists you know and they were just like hey go go get them. And I'm like man I don't even know. I don't even have an instagram account. I'm totally not equipped for this but to have somebody that's in it that's already done it. They're kind of figuring it out to have a best practices conversation amongst the people that are already doing ministry in that area so that when it when they step down you don't lose everything that they know about how to do ministry that way.

[00:43:27] So. So I think it's yeah. But don't don't. What I'm saying is it needs to be figured out. It doesn't need to be figured out by you. You need to empower the people on those teams to go out and figure those things out.

[00:43:39] OK.

[00:43:40] And they're waiting they're waiting for you guys to do that by the way you know yeah I'm not real I'm not real good at that. I call it babysitting grown folks. You know I'm like you know hey you know you know this and you know I can explain to you the areas you're good in you know go do it. But sometimes I think people are charged and to come from a generation mine. They're so used to him doing everything for him and holding their hands to hold on.

[00:44:12] I just don't operate that way. And so. So that's another kind of dealing with as well.

[00:44:18] But I mean by that I get used to means. So and let me just add and this is a little bit again on taking. So I took a church that was a legacy leader had led. I took it from 52 people to about twenty six hundred people. And then I became the pastor.

[00:44:38] So I mean he accomplished so much and so there's a strong culture there. But let me say this it is important that for when you're leading any of us leading people that we make sure we put in the why. A lot of times 20 to 40 pastors in my opinion in my experience are quick to tell people what to do what they get why we're doing it. And as as Chris Hodges says when we lose our why we lose our way. And I know people aren't going to be quick to jump on board to you know be greeters unless they understand that it makes a difference. You know I always say this. The churches that have the best first impression have the best altar calls because when the love of God pierces someone's heart when they walk through the parking lot it starts to break up some of the preconceived notions of this is unfriendly. They're not going to accept me and it makes them more more receptive to the message.

[00:45:32] So but if they don't understand that they just think you're telling them to do something you know later on in the end. So you've got to set that wise huge and you've got to keep in you to say it again and again and again and again and again especially to establish churches.

[00:45:46] OK. All right good deal. Our first question and I'll reply with this but I confirm what you said our first impression is by far number one ministry in our church. And I would attribute all of our growth in the last month to that. There's one thing people know about our church and know that they're going to be love and not want to judge in this regard and they don't set the tone.

[00:46:12] So that's something Rick Warren one of the things I love about 24 hour double is it answers to four main concerns that an unchurched person has. Gallup did a study and said there are four main concerns that the uninsured person has the first one was that that they're unfriendly.

[00:46:29] The second one was all they want is my money. The third thing was is that they're basically hypocrites. And in the for 20 is what will they do with my kid. Twenty more double answers every one of those question and and those concerns and so you're seeing growth because of that. I appreciate it.

[00:46:48] That's awesome. All right thanks so much Rick. All right Mike you are up yeah this is my Conaway St. Petersburg Florida I'm like yeah.

[00:47:01] Hey how are you. Good good.

[00:47:03] Just so we were just on the journey. I'm getting ready to teach module to on on Sunday night so we've had a great great beginning really strong strong response. I've got about 84 folks on the team and so very very excited about that. Working on that leadership matrix and one of the one of the things that I'm seeing is is in that matrix you have the you know the five fold ministry there and of course then you you add a seven person team because you add the treasure secretary to that. But what I'm seeing and trying to work towards is you know trying to stay away from folks here. Oh I am the prayer leader so therefore I'm the prophet or the leader. So you know I I say jump you say how high. Trying to really work towards helping people understand it's still a community leaders not just saying OK my job's not to recruit but everybody on the team's job is to recruit. You know my job is not to train you know but everybody's job is to have. We need a point person on that team. But how far far away from people getting a little too possessive of the five fold ministry.

[00:48:36] You know one of the things that I would I would ask you is are you really speaking about a broader issue that you're seeing in multiple people's lives or is this like one or two that you're concerned about.

[00:48:48] Well at this point it's at this point it's more of just a concern that you know I always say to be forewarned is the before aren't and so. So I don't think that at this point I don't see too much of that. But I'm just concerned that how to address that because I'll will actually be addressing that this Sunday reminding everybody hey just because you're you know you're the prayer leader here doesn't mean that you know only prayer happens with you and without you because people can be very possessive of ministry and I'm trying to help them understand a team concept and then also an apprentice concept in that process because you know we have experience. We're this is art. We've been our seventh year of ministry we're in our eighth year now we just celebrated seven years to the glory of God. But in that time we've also had people that were very possessive of the ministry and in that process when they step out or when an illness came or when an emergency came they really left no one in place and that left the whole of us as the lead pastor in teams to try and fill that gap. I'm just trying to make sure that during much of that.

[00:50:16] Well you know one of the things I would say is that you are teaching people to be leaders and so that requires is going to be messy. You know it's going to be you know people in do something one time and they do it so you know you do again have to set your expectations that you are teaching people to be leaders. But some of the things that I would say is partnering some of your leadership some of these teaching with some things from one of Richard's friends you know and his family the next generation leader is a great book to use to filter in some basic leadership premises of the idea of leadership is influence is not position. So just going to have a title but I mean anybody know follow what you do you know another thing is is that leadership is only successful when you're absent. You know then things continue. And so you know that you're going to have to to in my opinion it's the same way as some of the teachings with just basic leadership understanding. And then you're going to have to also add your own expectation. No I'm going to have to have a lot of individual conversations with these leaders to help them learn how to be better leaders. You know one of the areas of course is have like you know seven years sounds like poor people show up not like you're a great leader and if you're doing a great job but a lot of 24 to double pastors in my experience and I've worked with sometimes we want to move so fast we forget that we have to build leaders along the way.

[00:51:45] And the truth is you could do something faster than it takes to train a leader to do it initially now. But the thing is you doing it doesn't grow the church you're doing it because the church and that's one of the things I would say is just just pace yourself to build in the margin in your mind that I'm teaching people how to lead. And that's going to come through. Side conversations side meeting is a supplement to the 7:36 know some of these you know great leadership books. Yes. Because I mean and one of the last things I would say is you've got you've got to be willing to. In my experience. And Richard did speak as well. The possessive issue is not something I've seen a ton of. Honestly most of the time I think we want them to possess it more than that they possess it. But here's what I would say. There will be a couple. You know there's always a couple and it can be important though to just quickly address it. You know he head on with them you know help them see where they're making an error and then bring them back around. Don't let it fester. And also don't come. I think one of the mistakes we make is we try to correct an individual because you know by correcting everybody if you've got a person that's doing something you know we've got to that one person it's because we don't want to punish the team for what one person is doing. So those are just a couple of thoughts I hope that can help.

[00:53:06] Richard do you have any idea.

[00:53:08] No I think that was that was brilliant I think one of the things that we do is we assume that people if they have a leadership gift that they're leaders and and that's just a process that can't be microwaved. And you say you've got to it usually you know if you go into one of those meetings with those people that are in question right here it's pretty easy to tell right off the bat. I have one guy in my mind that I worked with when I was at John Maxwell's organization and everybody knew this guy. You know as soon as he got a position of authority he started to kind of throw it around a little bit. And it was one of those things John does these five levels of leadership which I think he has a book called The top levels of leadership and it's the stairsteps all the way up from you know from position all the way up to personhood.

[00:53:51] And my mom on the stairs should be go they should go down. So the farther you go on the leadership ladder the more people that you're serving and loving and that should be constantly reinforced especially in church because who else is teaching leadership really especially from a building respect perspective but servant leadership is the key to it. And when you see that it's not there and that's when you got to sit down and have a tough conversation and help people become aware because this guy particularly it was absolutely a blind spot. He was completely clueless as to what was going on.

[00:54:24] And I generally believe people are good hearted it's not a question of their heart. I really do believe they're good aren't that bad. You know sometimes it's just a blind spot and you have to help them out. So I want to make sure that I'm trying to prepare people's hearts for some of that. So in the future we can you know if if the issue comes out we can actually have that that hard conversation not afraid to have our conversation to you know sort of live in ministry without hard conversation. The other question that I have is is is at our meeting you know normally what I've come to understand is that usually we save the last portion of our meeting or seven days to kind of get together and kind of spend that time you know making some assessment. And in this very beginning those teams are not all of reform and we really are. We're taking our time. I like what you said. You know we understand this is a long term process. We actually don't call it 11:36 what we actually call it 2020 vision which is three years instead of two years so we're really striving to help them understand that we're on a journey not a destination and so. So we're trying to help them. You know we're willing to take our time. But in that interim time is it OK for my children and youth team has been formed. My small group team has been formed and our first impressions team is formed.

[00:55:53] Is it OK to let them be and then let the other folks know that they can they can be released without them feeling lesser for or maybe even you know not because obviously we have such a large group of people. There's only so many leaders on the on the leadership matrix so I'm still putting those air from specific teams like for instance if a parking team members there and they're you know they're a part of that first impression. But their parking team leader is already present. I'm still sending them over to that group but there are others that we haven't quite for leadership for that. So trying to put a leader over a team that maybe isn't present right now. Is it OK do you think it will be offensive to folks if if I said OK now you know these three teams these guys they have some things to talk about because they have some data some communication they have some things to work for. These guys are going to me.

[00:56:54] Let's have a group prayer and then as we dismiss I'm going to send these three teams to communicate Yeah I mean teams have different needs at different times and different levels and so long term I think that you know helping your you know the church kind of see you know every team doesn't have the same needs that every team and every time. It's not really about you know sort of a fairness in that way. You know there's for instance the outreach team you know is probably not going to be as active in June as they are in March.

[00:57:24] You know so so just that's a general cover for you. What I would say is this early in the process make sure that part of those individual media is just relational building you know just walk around the room walk around the circle lets get to know each other.

[00:57:39] I mean you know ice breaker type things because you know if that's where it really cements the team. It's not just it or centered around what we do it's also that we love one another and they become you know I mean ultimately people don't get these teams because there's a camaraderie. So make sure that you're not missing that.

[00:57:56] And then and then the only other thing I'd say is if you are worried about some kind of inferiority or something that can out you can always pull those teams together with you and they are you know we're on and let's talk about the progress we're making. You know and but you know I don't feel like long term that would be an expectation you could keep anyways where every team stays together at every time. But Richard you have any insight on that.

[00:58:19] No I think that's right on. And if you're if you're truly concerned about it I would go to the leaders of those teams and say hey what do you think about this. And then and then you know even if they disagree with you getting them to see what you're talking about and then let them be the champion of that message to their team.

[00:58:35] You know I really feel like we're we're we're I mean we're we are just a short time away from having the appropriate leadership in each one of the 17th. I really feel like they're already present there. But again I'm just being cautious because like you know it's easier to to point than disappoint. And so I would rather make sure that you know I have this spiritual gift inventories they're gifting out I'm seeing where people go and it's amazing how the Holy Spirit really has gifted people that are already on these current teams that fall into these specific roles. I just want to make sure again that I am not in a rush. We are not in a hurry. The amazing thing is is that God has blessed us just in these last couple of months. We have our parking team which was nonexistent for a couple of years has now been established. We've got a focus on that. We're getting ready to launch small groups in August and I've got 17 small groups that are great to launch for 17 leaders to step up so that the benefits that we're seeing from you know just the organizational structure and the media are really the cool thing is that even outside of the Eighty-Four that are coming to the 20 Cornie there are others that they are recruiting to lead small groups or to be on the parking team and so we're seeing some of that.

[01:00:04] So we're not in a hurry and there's a temptation to rush a little bit but I'm just trying to be very very hesitant and acting in faith but also trying to exercise the fruit of patience because because I like the momentum that we're building we're building towards September where we're going to actually do the spiritual gifts of the tree. We're building toward a connection that we're building toward a first serve observed Sunday in October. Are people that have gone through the spiritual gifts the inventory will have a chance for them to have had their assessments made and then they'll they'll have a chance to come in first serve serve one Sunday there or observe a ministry they're very interested in it and do some follow up. So so the momentum is building and that's building at a good pace. I just want to make sure I don't do anything to disrupt that momentum.

[01:01:05] That's awesome. I'd like to turn to Greg. Hey Joe do you have time for one more question.

[01:01:12] Yes sir. We got we got Clifton on the line so Mike thanks so much. Thanks for the question. I'll cut you off. Sorry about that. Hey Clifton are you there.

[01:01:21] Yeah I'm right here. I don't. Are you getting. I'm going where you are. Excellent. Well thanks for asking. Good. Can you hear me. Oh yeah. Yeah. How old are they.

[01:01:34] Okay man. Look I'm enjoying this. 24 to bearable. We wanted a new was coming in in action. Yes. We're actually just opening our next meeting. The one we went back over margin zero because we have some new members to come in now I hope that was wise. But I wanted to get them on the same footing. The questions I've had and now is like three years while we've got good momentum going. And one of the things that you all all to answer for me is that spend time tending to why. I'm not saying there's going to be very helpful to me the other thing you know those are the gifts of analysis tears. I'm not worried about the tradition I know is that I know we've all heard you know the normal fights and stuff like that. I'm not just praying about that. But I would make sure I stay on page two would both be done with gifts analysis. Is there a certain time I need to do that and I know you recommend I think the perfect pair of pastors breakfast but if they're on time I should do that. And how should I do it.

[01:02:54] Well you know I've seen this done several ways when you're just beginning you know it naturally you could immediately start pasters breakfast which is kind of the textbook way and start putting people through it. I've also seen depending on the size again I'm not I'm not advocating you know 50 60 80 percent of your church. But if you say I've got you know 10 percent or 15 percent that are already serving polling and then you know take it or do it thing by team and kind of putting them through that and giving it build it I get the point I'm making is if you need to get a corps together to have a skeleton to build from that's OK in my opinion and the traditional way of setting up a pastor's breakfast and begin to put people through that or maybe a series of six week that you ask you know all the people who are already serving as leaders in your church to come and teach them. I do think one of the things that I've seen be successful in 24 to double it's an alternative to it. It's not to the detriment of what's textbook if you will is the idea of pulling together a very small group of leaders when you're beginning and beginning to get them a little ahead in the journey so that you have a skeleton to work with some people who are. And here's why I believe that every church has early adopters mid adopters and late adopters and there are some people in the local church that yes the Apostle Paul wrote in on his white horse and said this is what we're supposed to do.

[01:04:23] They still wouldn't do it. They're just not like doctors. And one of the mistakes I think that that can be made is we try to get everybody to take the same step. Thank God. And so you almost defeat yourself by trying to get these late adopters on early.

[01:04:39] So anything that I would say let's go to the early adopters Let's get them on board then build up a little bit of a skeleton if you will. Then let's go to the doctors and get them on board once we get the skeleton then let's have a couple of women. And here's what I mean. Let's have a big Easter. Let's have a big Christmas tour. Then we can say hey guys this works. Look we had our biggest Easter because of this and what changes late adopters in the mid adopters is proof that the process works. And so the earlier you can get wins with a smaller t the more credibility you have to get late adopters on. And so I think sometimes it's just really important to realize that you know that everybody's not going to receive it the same way. So let's get the people who are in our early adopters do anything with you type folks. Let's get some change in our pocket. You know some credibility within process and then let's try to make the big step by getting people so that we have some proof. But Richard you can speak to the textbook version of that as well.

[01:05:39] I not think that's pretty right on. And again people do it a lot of different ways what I do know is that you want to be. Don't just think about the next step to get some license tests. Think about what happens after that because you know when people begin when this is a major understanding about themselves that you're handing to them and when they understand that you've got to strike while the iron is hot and get people to move forward. And so I would say you know take action quickly. And like Joe was saying get some wins under your belt. So start taking action but be ready to move people into those those key positions just as soon as you can because otherwise after at marinates for a week or two and you kind of lose the emotion of it some of those people will still come back and be part of what you're doing. But if you can get people to commit early on they got to get over that. You know here's the best example I can give for serving in church. Everybody on the call of us everybody on the call probably has kids and we all had the conversations with our spouse before we have kids is it the right time. Do we have enough money. What about this what about that. It's all reasons. And there's no relationship but once the kid comes you've got the relationship and you think me and what was the what was the big deal. Because of the relationship and that's what we're trying to do.

[01:06:50] We're trying to get people into relationships in the volunteer positions with the people beside them and the people that they're serving them because once they have those relationships all of those reasons are a moot point. So so getting people to move forward and using this gifts and passions test and the pastors breakfast as a catalyst for that. It's huge for your church and if you had volunteers your church will grow.

[01:07:13] OK. Because most of my my probably is not going to be the majorly. They are going to lead a war. We are in a tradition of church and steam fundacion but are going to be the one day in serving in what we call these auxilary. Now they are going to be the one who is going to step up and say PP-ASEL whatever it takes. So those are the ones that we need to focus on rather than those what we call the big boards and know that this is going to really be slow with this because we're going to require some change and based on what the campaign is saying. But I want to build on what's going on sure.

[01:07:53] Well and I think you know again not knowing the details of your structure I wouldn't say that you should leave established high level leaders in the dark but at the same time like I'll give you an example one church I worked at had a very similar you know basically a board that you know kind of ran the church. What the board were not the types that were going to go and actually lead teams. And so the manager basically told them hey you're going to keep doing what you do. You're in leadership. We need you doing what you're doing. But I'm going to build another group of people who can help me execute this vision. And so that relieves the idea of oh I've been replaced or I don't have competitive. You know there's a competitive nature to it. And what I would say about that is that you can change by mission not subtraction. You can add teams without having to take away other things that already exist. And then over time what happens in the local church is the thing that produce become the influence and the things that don't produce lose influence and then it's a natural occurrence. It's not something that you chose to let happen. And so if I was you I would keep them in the loop. Thank them for your prayer. Thank them for what they are. And that allows you to go work with this other group of people that had to build these new ministries.

[01:09:06] But I don't think you have to do it you know and the last thing I would say and you've already said it yourself but you have to keep coming back to why are you doing this why are we doing and why are we doing this and why. And just to anybody that is here on the call today and you know every church has some strong steeped tradition. If you're facing that one of the things that I think is important is that there does have to be a sense of there's a problem before we present a solution to what I mean by that is I don't mean tearing down your church. I don't mean saying oh gosh this is a terrible church but oftentimes we try to present a solution to a problem people didn't know we had. And so for instance if if you know your church has an age issue and we want to survive that you know move from being you know a church that has history to a church that leaves a legacy. We have to start saying things like Well you pray with me that God sends us the right things to do. So he start to reach the next generation you start saying things like that just drop in a minute there and then all of a sudden in people's mind they start really oh we do have an agency we do. But if you just come in and say hey this is the folks our age issue a lot of people be like why did he realize we had an eight. And that's what we're starting to kind of create tension and frustration.

[01:10:22] So as you're in these processes early start dropping small little hints that let people know that you know we do have some things in our church that I'm praying and asking God to send us a solution for. Even though you know in the back of your mind 24 it was going to be the solution but sometimes we try to present a solution without people knowing there was a problem. So that's part of vision casting too.

[01:10:43] All right. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:10:45] Thanks so much Pastor. Thank you. Bless you sir.

[01:10:50] Hey Joe. Thanks so much for doing this and I know we ran a few minutes long and I really do appreciate you taking the time to invest in these guys. I know they they appreciate it too so thanks a lot absolutely.

[01:11:02] My pleasure.

[01:11:03] Super. OK thanks everybody we'll catch up with you next month. Have a great day.

[01:11:09] Thank you for joining us for today's podcast. For more information about 24 to double check us out at double church dot on.

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