Call Notes from 24toDouble Members Q&A
- Simple Church – Thom Rainer
- Once we watch the modules, should we go ahead and implement that team? How should we implement?
- 7 teams acting as sort of umbrellas with the 5 fold ministry leaders (plus a secretary/treasurer) does each sub team have another 5 person leadership team? Or should it be that the 5 fold ministry team leads all sub teams?
- How do you handle leaders who are in place and don’t really fit with what you are doing in 24toDouble?
- How does the Mercy gift connect to theRecruiter on the team?
- Spiritual Gifts: Your Job Description from Heaven – Dr. Owen Weston
- Who/what team should follow up with the Spiritual Gifts results? What happens afterwards in terms of the placement process?
- How should we implement the Pastor’s Breakfast among multiple sites and various times?
[00:01:18] I am excited about this.
[00:01:20] This is the time of year where we get a hill by the throat and we step on it and we put it on the run because you know people's hearts and minds are back in motion with school and that just creates a great opportunity for evangelism for us. So I'm glad these pastors and church leaders are on board right now because we're going to we're going to get inspired and get some ideas and see some good things happen this fall. So thank you guys for being on board. Thank you. Richard and Jessica for making this platform happy. I'm excited to be here.
[00:01:53] Yeah and a special thanks to just because she's flying the ship right here before we start taking questions let me ask you is school back in. In northern Alabama.
[00:02:03] Yes it did all all cities that were in are back in as of last week we just had a gigantic student unlinking service what we normally see with oil and pray over every single student in the building. Hundreds and hundreds of students families. And it's become a huge big event for us high school football teams with their college basketball teams. It's just really grown. Everybody wants to be great for so maybe when you do webinars that yeah.
[00:02:38] Talk about that a little bit. That was last weekend that was what I wanted to get to. How did you guys. How does Daystar engage the community this time of year when you know that everybody's back in town and people are I mean this was one of the biggest times to get people coming back to church regularly. Right.
[00:02:53] It really is. And you know for years people it's considered back to school the back to back to church Sunday like the weekend after Labor Day and there's still a bunch of promotional stuff denominations will do it. But really school is clipped into August even early August now. So we don't go by that kind of thing anymore. We try to catch them the week before school began so that we could pray over them. We give away free backpacks and school supplies. And really it started years ago I was in. You love battery Alabama. Now that sounds familiar to anyone that's for us. But that's a very Catholic town like most coastal southeast is. And so they have a thing called the blessing of the fleet. And you know everybody who has a shrimp boat or any kind of a boat that they work off of will bring it past this big draw bridge and the local priest will bless every boat. People in our Protestant church all the Protestant churches but just their schedules. It will cost them money. They'll get back the end of the trip just so that priest can bless their their boat and just got me thinking about that. You don't even have to believe what we believe to want to be prayed for. And so we've been doing sort of the blessing of the students you know we call it student anointing I do some teaching on how the anointed David and the priest have all because you know these kings and priests they're important.
[00:04:24] They must have God's presence in their lives and we just basically say hey these students they're the kings and priest of God's kingdom and they must have got you got them and we want to physically do that we want to pray over them and many people show up like crazy for that. It's just been amazing. They cancel vacations and so we've really grown into a big event. We utilize it the same way you guys get on the call if you've been through the big event modules you know what we do. So we use it the same way it's like an additional big event for us. Now that's huge.
[00:05:00] And you guys so much this weekend are doing this thing called back to school bash and I'm sure everybody knows this but the number of people that come out of the church for the first time that are invited back to church by their teenage kid. I forget what the Fed is but it was a huge number of people where the kids got back involved in church and then all of a sudden the family started coming back and you guys do any kind of back to school thing for the kids.
[00:05:24] Well we kind of put it all together on that same day. So that's all together on that one Sunday.
[00:05:33] Yeah we will. We're doing ours this weekend and they really challenge everybody last week the leaders and the kids for everybody to find somebody and make sure that you invited at least one or two people and basically less double the size of our student ministry this Sunday. So you know we usually when we do big events like that usually goes off well because kids just want a reason to get together. You know so they it's a natural way. And you know we're they going to do that. Who else is going to organize that.
[00:06:01] You know we've got a huge opportunity with kids there goes into Stanley stealing our ideas again. I mean that's just how he does it.
[00:06:10] But he's a paper. Hey why don't we we've got a couple of people in the queue so why don't why don't we go ahead. I just want to unleash the first question for us and we'll jump on it.
[00:06:25] And I think this is Mike Mike can you hear us yellow just like they might just might just give Mike a say in that your own if you've got your phone.
[00:06:43] You might need the unneeded hate.
[00:06:49] Just so we know that the control freak inside of me is going crazy right now. Just so we're all clear.
[00:06:56] Not being able to see what's going on so.
[00:07:00] Then maybe like much or it may not be. And. Mike is the guy that was giving away the prize. I think it's the same guy could might not be. Hey Jessica why don't we do this. Why don't we move to the next Q in mind. For some reason right we're unable to hear you so if you'll get star six on your phone get back in the queue will load you back up again just to just get you can go ahead and queue up the next call that would be awesome. Now Jessica you need to make sure that they're not needed.
[00:07:34] If they'd gotten you out next to their name when you turned the key on then they might be needed on our end. It's not.
[00:07:45] Well clearly something that everybody is actually telling me that they are engaged and this is an area code 0 9 and they're not muted. But we still can't hear them right now we I can hear them I cannot hear them.
[00:08:03] Here's what I'm going to do.
[00:08:06] Jerry I'm going what you are I'll ask you another couple questions and then we'll kind of then we'll as you're doing that Jeff and I will figure this out just God will Skype you and let you screen share with me. And as long as I don't cut out maybe I can help you fix the problem. Hey one of the things that we were talking about before we started the call was you know it feels like Christmas is a long way out. Now in Atlanta they're already starting to advertise. You know go ahead buy your wife that piece of jewelry because you don't want to wait around until all the good stuff is gone. Feels a little early to start Christmas shopping but you and I both know if you're going to plan a big event around Christmas that you're going to have a good lead up to the good execution of a good ol for that event. All of that planning needs to start somewhere around here doesn't it.
[00:08:50] It does. And really this is the perfect time to be thinking about everything you want to do through the end of the year. And I think one thing I need to stress on pastors we we we want pastors we want a great weekend experience we want great events and that's that's good because that makes people want to come back. They want to be a part of that experience. But I think you also have to ask yourself at your core what what keeps you going and what helps you accomplish your goals. And there are two things I want you to think about right now and that is people resources and financial resources. If you don't have the right leadership team if you don't have the right kind of young leaders being identified and raised up leading teams whether it's staff members if you're a church that has paid staff or whether it's key volunteers that's big and large churches need that you've got to identify the right people. Now kudos to you because you're in 24 to double 24 double shows you how to identify those people and empower those people so let's say you're doing that. Let's talk about that other part though. Financial resources what are you doing to make sure you don't just have a great friend day this fall or a great Christmas service. What are you doing to make sure that you capitalize with big offerings. I want you to stop right now.
[00:10:13] Think about that because a lot of times what pastors will do is they'll be following someone on Facebook or Instagram and maybe they're podcasting or whatever and they'll hear that pastor talk about something that he's doing maybe a big Thanksgiving offering or a big you know Christmas not Christ's birthday offering on Christmas. And then he goes oh crap we're missing this opportunity. I want you to be intentional about that.
[00:10:34] And right now thinking about what am I doing to to maximize the giving spirit in this Thanksgiving to Christmas time. And you know don't don't just step up and have an offer but I have to have a plan and plan it out like you would be you know like like you would be in series. It's actually a sermon series around it. Build a big event around it. You know start with the dripping of this idea that you know we're going to we're going to change the world with this big offering you know whatever that is whatever your goal is with that offering. Let the Met maybe there's a guy or a lady up there thinking right now hey our goal is to pay the mortgage because we've got a big mortgage and we can't give away a bunch of this. You know if you could do is you could say you know we were going to use a portion of our Thanksgiving offering for the children of the world and you know that could be orphanages to support or any number of ways you blessed children and then and then still the lion's share of that a big offering goes to your budget. So the thing I would say that needs to happen right now is you need to be planning out how am I going to increase our resources because right now you're sitting out there and you have one more staff member or if you could get that new piece of equipment or if you could renovate the lobby or something. You know it would create a difference for you. It creates some excitement.
[00:12:01] Would you create something for it or maybe you know your church growing really fast because you know you're doing the 7:36 double system. Well and here's what we teach you is that even though you know the numbers are increasing. That giving does not increase at the same rate is the number so you're needing to add that your dating pool table service. Maybe you need to tear out a wall in that seats you have got to get ahead of the curve on planning on fund raising. You know it's it's it's fun when the church is really growing and I experience this thing where we just grow and grow and growing and all of a sudden you know I need to build a building and I've talked to a banker. And wow you know I was not prepared was what he told me. I don't know what to do to raise funds. So right now is the time planning out what that givings or how we're going to drip drip drip the idea then drop it on a Sunday. I will let me ask giving our elders then everybody else.
[00:12:59] Richard the company in no I'm not.
[00:13:03] We're still trying to fix the problem. Jerry sorry about that. OK.
[00:13:06] About to get in. So yes that that's that's a big piece of what you're trying to do. Now if we want to talk about Christmas I'll be happy to jump onto that.
[00:13:20] So this year. Sunday Christmas is on a Monday. So remember Christmas Eve is on a Sunday. So if you've had Christmas Day services then honestly it's going to be a little bit of a challenge to do a Monday Christmas Day service will be a tougher challenge if you used to having you know candlelight Christmas Eve services then you know that that's going to fit perfectly with a Sunday. Last year we did both. We did Christmas Eve and Christmas Day because the Christmas Day was on Sunday and that we wanted to give people an opportunity couple of Saturdays most would be both services closed both times. You should absolutely be making Christmas one of your big events. It's the easiest thing for people to come out to. I guess Easter and Christmas are the easiest things for people to come out to. So what we're doing right here is we're planning on you know how we're going to promote it. You know Facebook promotion is one of the most targeted ways you can promote. There are more people on Facebook than there are human beings on the planet right now I think so it's going to hit everyone. It's very economical and it's very targeted. We tend to target people who have not liked our Facebook page. So we're not spending a bunch of money on you know hitting our own church members we're trying to get people who are not our church members. So that means we're more effective in who we're targeting. It cost us less money and we're making little short videos.
[00:14:54] We're powering our people can make little reasons why I'll be a star for a candlelight Christmas you know and then the other thing I would say is is we're just not overthinking Jandali. Christmas is been done for a million years probably since before I was born but it still works. You know people around Christmas time people get messed all day. People love to remember the old days. And so simple candlelight Christmas we've got a very young staff and you know over half of our bass is millennials. And so you know there are a lot of them we're talking about where will do something different just do something different. You know as we continue the conversation everybody said you know what if it works.
[00:15:37] You know people like old things around Christmastime and so let's just keep let's keep doing candlelight Christmas so that's also an awesome thing to be doing at this time of year. Guys that which I could hear your questions I'd be a lot easier.
[00:15:53] OK I think I think it's possible we had figured out now. So just to go ahead and try to add the next person in the queue. And if we did you in the in the queue go ahead and put sparseness in there. Again this is one of those months where we don't have a ton of people on the call because it's August. So this is a great day to get your questions answered. If you have them so go ahead quick.
[00:16:14] Just go OK.
[00:16:20] This is a this looks like a 5 7 3 area code and I am not sure what is going on with this and everybody that's on. I apologize. We've never had an issue with this before and I don't think it I'm not sure what's going on. To be honest with you.
[00:16:55] Oh click that just yet OK.
[00:17:04] All right hey if you have hung out this long wait for us to get on the call. It's very possible that Jerry has just dropped some gold on this call. And you did not hear it because it looked like some of you were on hold. So if you're in the queue right now we're about to meet you live. We have not been able to hear you. Many of you have not been able to hear us. And I apologize for that. Here's the saving grace in this. We record all of these calls. So Gerri just went on for about 20 minutes about what they're doing between now and the end of the year to get ready for the end of the year. The saving grace is we record all of these and we'll be picking it up on the podcast. We'll also send you a link to it. You should be able to dial back in and listen to the person you miss that. Well that being said I believe that we should be able to hear you now. OK so if not let's see right now phone number number 5 7 3. I think your might should be live right now. It looks like first gen something church or Baptist. There we go. We've got to fix. Good job Jessica. Thank you. And what's your first line is great. Yeah man you got pretty those of you that were on hold. We apologize for leaving you on hold for 25 minutes so tell us your first name. Go and ask your question.
[00:18:22] My first name is Jim. We have watched module zero and module one and heard about vision and not only heard about vision but then also looked at just you know establishing our vision understanding our vision and then modules zero was about you know the teams but I guess for me just starting out a part of my question is where do you see us going as we as we watch these first few modules. I mean I know that you had said that the first 12 modules were basically just to get you. Thinking to get you know moving in that general direction. But like you had said that after the second module you weren't expecting that we were going to come back with a vision in four weeks and you referenced the guy who did but said that was not your expectation so I guess for me short of us coming and watching a video and going home each month I guess. How do you see the first few modules working and what do you what do you foresee doing as we prepare for that.
[00:19:31] You know that second year OK good question and welcome aboard. I'm so glad you guys are jumping in. One thing I would say is because we have so many churches who are in or have been in 24 7 well over a thousand There's so many different sets of circumstances so the pace is going to be different for the first 12 months. We want you to build really build the structure for 24 to double. But all the while knowing that it's a little bit like nailing Jello to the wall when that you know you're going to put people in places that they don't fit because they're going to they're not going to give this property they're going to not answer honestly they don't answer the way that they think you want them to answer.
[00:20:18] They get it you know each time you deal with people there's just a lot of variables that are unpredictable. So you know that second year you've got it up and running you've seen some things be very successful. You've had things that are going to need to rebuild. And so in the second year he basically perfect this system you put make sure you know everybody's in the right seat on the bus. And the thing is really humming along so with where you are having just started. Yeah. You know you're having conversations right now about your vision. What's great about our church. You know what do we need to build on. You know what is different about us. Why would someone go to our church and no other church. Why not just this or why this church. You know we talk about the Hitchcock principle. You know what am i great at what its value and what produces you know financial results what actually makes bodies show up and pays the bills. So you find where all those intersect in that little spot is where your best favorite is now. If your church again is over a thousand churches somebody has already done all that before they get here so you're ready to jump right in. You know the next module which we're going to start talking about first impressions and parking lot teams and big events and all that kind of stuff.
[00:21:38] But it just kind of based on where you are if you've never done anything like this before that maybe you're going to get a handful of your best leaders and open up the books simple church and start talking about how we can craft a mission statement that is simple and easily memorized. You know so it's kind of different for everyone you know depending on where you are. And you know what pace you can your church can tolerate.
[00:22:05] Make sense. It does. It does.
[00:22:08] So right now we should be in conversation mode and just just kind of information gathering and determining what our what our strengths are what we are able to do and doing preliminary vision work yes.
[00:22:23] So I'll tell you how that works kind of for a start. We went away the first time we ever did a mission statement. It was just in my heart. I was so passionate about it I couldn't wait to do it the right way nor did I know how to do it the right way. I just got up and preached. You know so I didn't you know I I convinced everyone that my vision was right. But just out of my pure passion and the grace of God the next time I did it our church had already grown that we had a small paid staff so I gathered our staffs and elders together and we just started having conversations about it this is what we've been built on this is who we have to be in. But I actually got a flip chart and I said everybody write down. Word give me words to describe our church. Tell me what you know what you love about our church and how we started right there and basically it's just a big conversation and we started thinking about the process that we want people to go through what what what does a disciple look like as he goes through. They start church and you know so we had slow conversations about that and we ended up modifying my original mission statement which was big long in too wordy and made it much more simple and so I think that's where you'll want to be.
[00:23:41] You definitely want to make sure that the key players in your church the people you have the most influence that they feel like they had an input and that this is their mission statement and not your mission statement. So that's why you want to you know pause and not ram it down their throat but slowly let them be a part of the process. OK.
[00:24:04] Hey if I could just put two cents on that too. I'm just run in 7:36 devil and everything that we do. We're right now in a season where Jerry and I shot another wedding or we're going to be watching soon and it's overwhelming. I think that we have to do to be able to reach out to you. It's overwhelming. So let me speak out of that that that state of mind that you can go into when you start to look at a program like 11:39 where it can be overwhelming. And what I would tell you is just a chunk it down into three easy steps as much as you can. And so you look at the next thing you need to do and you think OK you've got to get it is really all we got to do is get people together pray and get a plan together and they go out and execute on it and try to keep things in your mind. I hope they stay instuments. I mean try to get into the mode where you just knew the next smart thing you can do and tackle that thing and don't try to. Don't try to eat the whole elephant at one time but really just take a piece of it and go OK. So we develop a vision that people can adopt in their lives because most people don't have a vision for their life. And if you create one for your church that people can go on with that. Not only that I'm going to make that my life's mission is to go out and leave people in a growing relationship with Jesus Christ.
[00:25:16] Is it adoptable. And I think if you do that nothing with your is telling you a simple charge of a really easy way to kind of jumpstart that process and not be overwhelmed by it.
[00:25:27] I know that I've been in my church I've been here relocated from southern Indiana southeast Missouri and so we've been here right at four years just to air over working just from the premise of trying to get the people of the church to look outward instead of look inward. So I know we've got a lot of a lot of challenges that they have just become very inwardly focused very ingrown and so trying to point them out word and look at some of that. And so you know in an established church it it is a challenge at times. So just wanting to make sure that we're that we're taking the right steps and doing the right things and don't get blindsided with what we were supposed to be doing this. And suddenly we don't have it done and we were supposed to have it now. So quilting. You know we could just redirect their redirect their focus and get them looking outward how do we how do we bring people to Christ. How do we help them grow and mature in their faith and grow the kingdom.
[00:26:33] So yeah Jim you're facing what you just said is basically 95 percent of the American church is we're established passion is kind of waned among the members and they're internally focused. So when you have these conversations. What you need of course is a personal revival in your own heart for the harvest. I pray for that all the time. Just recently had a long talk with God about making me more hungry for the harvest. So you've got to have that for yourself. But at the same time you've got to convince these people and you don't want to be banging them over the head because you want them on board. You want it to be their idea. So one thing I would suggest is into those conversations especially if you've got to fabulous leadership team maybe they've been in position a long time into those conversations about vision. Who are we. You know what is God placed to see or feel what are we trying to do. Insert young people in your church young leaders or emerging people that you see something in maybe even a leader yet that you see something in them. Because I mean there's one thing I know about young people is they are going to say we need to be outwardly focused.
[00:27:50] I mean they are so young people are so done and fed up with you know church that focuses on you know building pews and just all the stuff that you know that you're talking about. I mean just about every single young person is going to say the things that you want to say and that might be in art Poland might have some bad theology along with it. But you can overcome that. They're going to help you say some things that you want it to those older members and then you're going to have to blame it on me which is great you know hey you know we need we need the next generation engaged we need them serving God. And you know so I would I would definitely try to bring them to the conversation.
[00:28:35] Thanks so much for your question and great answer T.J. that was good stuff.
[00:28:40] OK. One more it let me say this before you get the next person on board. One other nugget that you could do and I did this years ago I looked up one day and I just noticed that my my eldest boy was just getting older and just didn't have the young voices that I wanted on there.
[00:28:59] And so I created a junior board of elders which had no authority there are not enough bibles or anything like that I just handpicked them and gave him when they did the junior board of elders and so they met with me once a month at my house. And I mean that made them feel so special and you know so appreciated and so important.
[00:29:18] And it also you know bought me some influence with them and it gave me an opportunity to learn from them. And so today is a good number of those junior elders are now elders in our church. It created new ministry opportunities and so you're having a hard time and you've got to establish a leadership team and you want to get younger boys but you don't know where maybe you elect leaders which I think is such a horrible way.
[00:29:47] But with that you don't have a way around that. Here's a good way to just create something new. That's kind of not a part of the official government of the church. And then you get to hand-pick who you want and you start sort of a movement on your own.
[00:30:05] OK. That's brilliant.
[00:30:06] That's good to hear that there may be enough for some of you to got on the day that may be the one big thing you take from this from this day. I think it's brilliant just because you can eliminate the older crowd just like you. You really get specifically to hear their voices. And again younger people are going to show up where there's a crowd. I think that's awesome. OK. Are you ready to go to the next question. Yes. OK. Go ahead Jessica.
[00:30:38] All right here on your first name and your church name and then ask your question.
[00:30:43] My name is Cody. Pastor Remati church in Concord North Carolina. And I've got a couple of questions. That's OK. Sure. My first my first question that we started back in April and so we're coming up on March 4. We talked about pastors breakfast last last month. Great material. People are really excited about it and we have plans to really launch that on January 7th. It will be the first Sunday of the new year and prior to that we're going to be doing some dry run through and take our current church members through it let them experience it. Things like that. So we're building the team to that right now. But my question really is for the next two months because I'm kind of similar to Jim. You know I'm kind of confused about the implementation of things. You know when we signed up we had we had to fill out you know your expectations and goals and there was a thing on there for you know the six month mark you can expect to grow about this much so much before and found no talk about the front door team the whole team and also the care and quality. Once we watch those modules should we be going ahead and implementing those teams to start seeing that that new growth that we want to see because I know there are other models later on down the road that talk about actually implementing those teams.
[00:32:11] Yes so each each time that each time that you watch a module you want to watch it beforehand as the past and you want to know what's coming and then you want to of course you've invited maybe your whole church or maybe you're into anyone who's willing or a whole volunteer call whoever you've invited. But then you want to handpick and just make sure you get a personal invitation. We're talking about worship to everybody who's ever been involved in the music or worship. We're talking about first impressions. You know you want to hand it to people and then you know a lot of these cases you already have agreed he or already have you know ushers or whatever. And so you can immediately start to rebuild that around you know a person's spiritual gifts. And around that fragile model so you say to someone you know whose baby he's been the head of your team and you find out he's prophetically gifted. And that's why the ushers can't get organized because the prophet has never organized anything not a prophet not of some theologians or jumping on a prophetically gifted person an office is difficult to get but a prophetically gifted person is never organizing a thing and so you get to say to him actually I've already said and you know what you need to be a prayer leader on this team. We need to know we need to find that administratively gifted person so that that's the kind of conversations and the kind of changes that are going on.
[00:33:40] And so if you've already got people in place that you kind of like a Chinese fire drill you're moving things around and it's exciting. And if the momentum is going the way that it should be there's a bunch of extra people that you know are not engaged right now. And so you've got a place to put them together so I mean if you can as fast as you can build it. Cody I need you all to build it. I just encourage people not to get ahead. Sometimes people will you know build it faster than one module a month they'll buy the whole system out right. And you know try to watch one a week and you know that's just too much change for a person to really be able to absorb it by building one team a month. That is good but just don't don't don't don't don't paint yourself into a corner store you tell your people we're going to build one team a month. You know in seven months we get all 17 that you know we're going to go at the pace that you know we can get there and maybe that maybe that's seven teams in seven months maybe it's seven days and 14 months. So
[00:34:44] the other question I had was in preparation for the pastor's breakfast this kind of came back to me was and we have the 70s and they kind of function as department so I guess is what we would describe it as. And you mentioned subthemes within those. I know that like each of the seven teams have the seven positions are the five positions whatever they are to hit the care and follow up or ahead of the the WOW team. Do we need other leadership teams with those same good things for the teams as well. Or is the administrator for the gear and follow up going to be over the whole follow up process including raiding the passer's breakfast as well. Or will there be multiple administrators within that department with one kind of department head kind of.
[00:35:38] Yeah. OK.
[00:35:39] So that's a good question and I would just say it depends. My favorite seminary professor's favorite words were It depends every question you get asked to sit at the piano. But in this case it really does. And I would say in most cases you just need that one administrator to be over it all because that once but now if it's really growing you have a lot of people on the team that you know could have the liberty to break things up a little more and do those type of subthemes.
[00:36:10] And also you know one thing that's going to inform indecencies is that you're not in charge of any administrator. And you know naturally I think we say in some of the tape that naturally gets kinda clumped together you know all the people with the Mercy give tend to you know be friends and you know all the people with the administrative gift tend to be friends and nobody can be their friend because they are too loose. So you know so if you like if you have a bunch of people who are passionate about children's ministry and you all mercifully if you got a pile of people in with mercy so that you're going to eat each. Not only is he the church different but each team is different. And so you'll have to massage that thing around some yourself and making some of the judgment calls on your own based on you know who's showing up and what your personal looks like.
[00:37:01] The other question I have I guess is kind of indirectly related to 24 but more of a leadership question as far as you know we have a we kind of did the whole coalition of the willing kind of deal that you talked about the several come just come. What I'm finding is that most of the people who are currently serving are the ones that are coming to the meetings. How do you deal with those leaders that you you're not sure that they are fully getting where you're going or the you know may have created problems in the past or you know they're just not the the kind of leader that you kind of see movement forward as to be the one that's kind of the centerpiece over some of the ministries in leadership positions. But you're kind of stuck to having them be part of that core of people and you're not really seeing any new folks coming in to step up to be leaders. How do you feel like do you take the approach which I'm sure is different now than it used to be but you kind of take the approach that hey I can work around this person and manage this person. Do you feel like they just can't be a part of this.
[00:38:12] They need to be sidelined kind of deal so that's a very real scenario and that's one of the things that will slow down the that will determine the pace that you roll out teams. Because I do try to work with people if I can. You know you're going to have early adopters who jump on board immediately and they adopt the change they promote and you're going to have many adopters who after they see some real progress happen in a bunch of people get on board. They adopt the change and then you have non adopters who are never going to change what they are. They they accept it. You know they continue to try and get. And then you have antagonist's you know they're just against everything. I can work with anybody except the antagonist. You know if I because I've got some people even right now I'm thinking of you know of a family in our church and old Middle-Aged family that they were right in the core. They went forward when we first started the church. But with all the changes that we've made today they just show up for church and they type Well I can how I can deal with that. I mean how many can deal with a bunch of new tithers that just time we all deal with that money. But if you know if they're you know in leadership and they're cranky and they're negative and they are creating you know a culture problem you get a bad culture around them.
[00:39:37] Then I would have to move them out now they're just not jumping on board and not catching the vision as much and maybe they don't know what they're doing. You know I work around and I work with them and that might slow down the pace because I can't I can't personally manage all seven you know administrator I've got you know so that would slow my pace a little bit. Another one of those judgement calls that you have to make. But you know when I'm early in organizational change I just don't have a whole lot of just definite I guess or just you know I'm going to die on this hill because this is this is a revival atmosphere God's doing something in this guy's heart maybe I don't want to too quickly. We'll just say you know you don't have the vision. Move on. Make your seat for someone else. I don't want to do that too quickly you may come to that but I'm praying and believing that he's on a catch vision and so I'll I'll work around him kid gloves up until a certain point. OK. Thanks guys.
[00:40:37] Appreciate it. Can I add something to that just a personal experience. So I mean I lead a high school group at my church so I've got 40 guys in my group and we have about 10 or 12 that show up really well. I'm in my second group and I think this is a microcosm of the same issue. But I had one kid in my last group and the group would either it would either be awesome or it would be horrific and it was all dependent on when this one kid whether or not he was going to take it serious or not. And so I just pulled him aside because I mean like you can't throw kids out of schools lights off pulled him aside Hey you believe in Jesus. And I knew he did and he said Yes I said you realize that there is a spiritual war going on for the hearts and minds of these young men. And right now you're on the wrong side of it. And I had a relationship with him where I could kind of put it to him that aggressively. And like like change on a dime. This kid reengaged the group and he came in a sort of take it's more serious. We had better conversations and now I lead with him. He he came to me when he graduated high school and he's going to college locally and he said Hey can I leave the next group with you. I was going to take some time off because of him and another kid. I decided to go ahead do it.
[00:41:49] And these two guys are two of the best young leaders I've ever been around. And so the reason I tell you that story is sometimes you think you've got to be delicate. And as we get older as men especially we've got to be a little bit more delicate when we kind of broach subjects like that sometimes you've got to come light at people and just go Hey let me tell you what's on my mind and ask you what you're trying to do because sometimes we're trying to find our authority through these leadership positions and churches and it's not really about reaching a lost people it's more about me and me being able to build an identity and authority around this one little area that I have influence over in the church. And I think you can license you up and then you challenge and give him the authority to do that with you as well. But I think I would ever just go OK this is the way this person is and they've been here a long time so we're just going to deal with it I think God has called us to call each other out. Well when we see something then and you may you may see a guy that turns on a dime. And what does that mean. What are your biggest advocates in the process. Well three other good questions. Great. Hey just can you cue up the next the next caller. Oh this one for the non-obese. That's the new one. You say you are same in your church saying.
[00:43:08] See Robbie Joyce from Troy Michigan lives going to church I wrote my and I just was just visiting and I'm just starting. I just joined the program. I just left. I got I'm going to have my first meeting on this Sunday coming up. And so I really don't have a question yet the questions I had somebody already answered. I'll just have to be a part of James Oh it's awesome.
[00:43:34] Thanks for getting on for that. Yeah you're you're my Michigan is my family's home town and although you don't hear Michigan in my voice one generation older than me my whole family is from Michigan so. Man I'm glad you're on board and we're praying for revivalism getting an opportunity to tell everybody. You guys are on my prayer list. I mean it's not a I have a physical literal prayer list where I pray for you guys on a regular basis. So you guys are there on my prayer list my team prays for you. I have a prayer team around me that are praying for the things that matter to me. They're praying for you guys so even though I'm not you know visiting your church a lot of you are not visiting my church. We're connected in the spirit in a lot of ways so. And welcome aboard from from Crolla Michigan.
[00:44:27] Thank you. Thanks for calling.
[00:44:29] All right let's move to the nation just because this is the infamous my first in the queue and has been waiting patiently. Thanks for waiting.
[00:44:37] Hey hey Richard how are you. Good. Good. Hey a couple of quick questions for you. I I we're heading into our fourth meeting this coming Sunday things seem to be going well for us putting a few of those teams together and one of the one of the struggles or challenges that we've had more of just a question of the idea the mercy gift and the recruitment connection. I've had a couple a couple of my leaders as I'm assembling some of these 17 fivefold leadership teams and a couple of them really struggled with the connection between the Mersey guest and the idea of recruitment. They could see it in the realm of the evangelists. But but as they did studies they came back. I thank God that they're like barbarians. You know the Berlin study to show themselves. And they came back and said man I did a study on this and I just didn't see the connection and so I think I try. I helped them a little bit. But I'd be very interested to hear how what you two guys have to say about how you see that mercy gift actually connected to the recruiter on the team. If you could speak to that I greatly appreciate it.
[00:45:56] Sure. Well so all of that. When you start talking about you know those gifts and what those how those gifts work in the body prize that's going to be very subjective because you know we didn't spiritual give test the Apostle Peter and you know to you know to know that he had the perfect gift and things like that so that's subjective.
[00:46:19] And there's a lot of opinion in that.
[00:46:21] But you know for me the best resource I ever had on it and it's kind of an obscure book which you can still get it online and it's by Dr Owen Weston. I would urge everybody to get this book and its cards. Spiritual gifts your job description from heaven. And he takes every one of those gifts you actually get a definition from several key Christian figures as well as theologians to get a definition from leading pastors as well as theologians.
[00:46:57] And then he tells you who he believes had that spiritual gift in the Bible.
[00:47:02] I can't tell you what mercy who he calls out but he is old testament and new testament people who he feels like had that gift. And then he walks you through you know why that gift is what it is and that's that's where all of that theology is built on. OK. But I would add this. You know we try to tell people that we are theologically lights. We're not trying to cram our theology on you. You know we're structurally heavy. And we have to we have a strong structure that we know that works but we were not trying to make you believe our theology if you believe that the spiritual gifts are here today that you know God gets people to do something and you can pretty well get on with it without the help. So that's probably where where I would leave that.
[00:47:47] OK. Go ahead. I'm sorry Richard go ahead. No I would. The only thing I would add to that is in my experience with this gift and science test when people take it in and they're honest with themselves. And that's harder to do than you might think when you're honest with yourself. You don't have to convince them what their role is. They look at it and they go oh that's just right. You know so. So I think that somebody saying if they're now they may be just saying hey I don't see the connection they all may all be awfully saying. I don't think that's the right fit for me. And if they don't if they truly don't believe it's the right thing for them they might need to go back to the drawing board on the spiritual gifts and this. Because people that have the gift of mercy. It's not always true. But in general they attract people and that's why they make good recruiters as people sit down and talk to them just because if people that have that gift of just like you can tell this person cares about you and I can name five of them right now. They've always got people that want to spend time with them. And that's a natural place to recruit people into ministry from because the person with the gift of mercy knows the best thing you can do for people is help them understand that gift and live in it. That's the best thing you can do for them. Outside of introducing them to Jesus.
[00:49:02] Sure sure. I just that was one of those things that you know obviously I've graduated from seminary so I you know done some studies and I was able to help them along a little bit because that was their number one you know gift area. And so I was able to help them along. Understanding you know the idea of mercy understanding the idea of we all are recruiting for Christ you know. So I kind of helped them understand you're not alone in this journey either just because you have the job description of recruiter doesn't mean that every single team member isn't recruiting and because we all should be hurting you. Got you. Our philosophy is is you you you have to have an apprentice. If not you're one. Your ministry is one generation away from being forgotten. So we try and help him understand this and that if you don't show up on Sunday you know or Wednesday or whatever day you're serving you should make sure there's somebody there that can that can help. And I think she it helped her I think she was a little overwhelmed and nervous but she was very receptive to it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. But I will grab Dr. Westons Cookham course.
[00:50:15] There's one other resource that we already have available. Richard might be able to tell you better where to find it but we have the training on all of the gifts that we've written and it's a downloadable resource that you can use in your church to do training. And it's based on some of that same. No that's right.
[00:50:36] Yes sir. I've reviewed that. Actually I was able to get it and review it. And that's where you know I just didn't I saw what you guys were saying and I was able to sustain some of that information to her as well to kind of help her along the journey. You know I just want to have a little bit more clarity for myself just in case there was something that I was missing. Obviously I think every you know every every no team member is going to have to stand alone. I think every responsible right everybody is responsible. You can't just say oh it's just your job your job you're the only guy who prays. You know you're the only guy who does that right.
[00:51:15] Explain that. Just because you have the prayer. Leadership doesn't mean that nobody else is allowed to pray and when it's time to pray you're not the only guy in the room. It's kind of like when a pastor shows up everybody expects him to pray. Sometimes I just want to be mine. You know I want to go to a group and I'm going to be Mike. I don't want to be Pastor Mike you know. And so sometimes I say No somebody else pray you know somebody else use your guess.
[00:51:41] The other question I have is the update.
[00:51:50] I mean some of the videos we've been looking at them obviously I always review the modules I listen them all the time. I think sometimes my wife thinks I'm crazy. I've got my earphones in and I'm listening to a module you know multiple times to get into my heart. You can't communicate something that's not in your heart. And so you. So you know one of the things that I think some of the the the modules do you guys have any any live seminars coming up are you guys going to be really be doing any of those videos. Some of them as I'm listening to me they're asking the pastors. I know what you're saying and I hear what you're saying from Pastor the pastor but some of the material is is so pastoral that I get concerned that some of our folks hear that and they miss some of the heart sometimes the oh wow this guy just cares about numbers of this guy. You know this guy just cares about this or that because the pastors we can say things pastors in a pastors conference said that a lot of times other folks don't understand and so you know. And so I was wondering you guys have any intention of doing some of those. I've been teaching the material I've been listening to you all and then I teach it personally because what I have found is that my people connect heart to heart with me as I communicate the materials.
[00:53:18] I find that there's much greater buy in for me I know it's for other people it's different but for me you guys said let me know in the beginning of this program that if we wanted to teach the content we could teach it. And so I've been able to do that a lot more work. But but you're seeing some results. Do you guys have any any live seminars coming up or any of those things.
[00:53:40] Let me let me speak just real quickly to the idea of the philosophy of the way we did this. So my intention in teaching the material was to make it aggressive aggressive and to say some some very strong things so that local pastors First of all that went out you know I think that teaching teaching is good testimony is more powerful because testimony the levels as we made overcomers by the word of our testimony. So my teaching is hey we started with 60 people and no budget and a small town. And you know we're a mega church and so it can happen with a small amount of money a small amount of people. No building no parent church to get you started. So basically everybody's excuse for why it won't work for me when they go to you know some big conference and they say that work for me. This training is a testimony it's not just a teaching at the testimony that says it does happen it did happen it can happen. It continues to happen. And so with that in mind I taught very aggressively even some areas that I knew would be controversial so that the pastor could follow up and pull things back and give an example when I used to be a minister of music and if my team couldn't sing a song in the key of F we would rehearse in the key of G and that which is one step higher. And they felt that they were going to break their vocal chords I would back it down the F and they were like Man this is great. This is a great key.
[00:55:17] This is perfect because I would stretch them and Colden back in the same idea is that you know I say some things. And the pastor is able to get back up and say you know what. Hey here's a good guy talk to him he's a little more aggressive in these areas where we feel like we land. And then that masters the good guy he actually gets them to go to a place that they didn't want to go. But it seems you know easier because I went went farther so that that's the mentality. But we do always say hey if you want to teach it yourself you know go right ahead and teach it. But but most of our most of our guys are doing it in that agreed upon format. And as for live interaction you know we're we're not currently doing live teaching. We do have a lot of churches that are pastors leadership teams that will visit us and come out today Sarr and have some one on one time and kind of see we can't like that. So we do have a good bit of interaction like that right now.
[00:56:17] Yeah I came by and saw you guys in June and it was nice to get to see face to face in June and you're at the movie series. So I came over OK. I came on announced just for the just enjoy. From a perspective outside I really enjoyed the time that I was there so appreciate you guys and really got a chance to be refreshed as well. I was away so it was nice to be blessed. Other quite is if you don't mind who follows up with your small group. I mean I'm sorry your spiritual gifts results. Do you have a specific gene that follows up with these small spiritual gifts. Result. And the second question with that is is what is the placement process. I think both those questions are probably work and in tune together if you if you have folks who take the spiritual gift inventory then what happens afterwards in terms of the placement process.
[00:57:21] So we've got we like to make that as personal as we can. One thing that happens when you know churches in by very very definition are usually not very organized. And so when you start adding a lot of structure to churches a little bit of blowback sometimes. And so we want to make things as personal as we can. So we we send that report to you know the team leaders the administrators of everything and then they see that a team member follows up they might follow up or the team trainer teacher might follow up or you know you might use the person with the mercy of their greater good recruiting and have good people skills. But we leave that up to the administrator and say someone on your team needs to directly call each other or even have a meeting with each person who selected that they were you know interested in children's minister.
[00:58:14] They're passionate about you know whatever ministry OK go that's what I've been doing I've been in the same same page. I just want to make sure I was on the same page. You know follow up is so important that what I have seen and my number of years of ministry is a spiritual gift inventory a test taken and then no placement help. And if you don't have a placement and then follow up after they found it. Sometimes it can be a very difficult situation. So we try and do something called You know first verse first server observed Sunday and we're planning on doing that in October and then many who are taking the spirits are good. We have 60 people who've taken that to try and help them help help find them. As the first generation that first generation of placement. So those are those things that we're finding good results in. And I appreciate you guys taking the time today. You know we're plugging away we're going into our next section which is a session for or talk about the pastors practice talk about some of the things we maybe we have some folks that are excited about that but we're also at a place where we when we launched I had no pair. All I had was Jesus in a dream I had NO NO NO parent organization no affiliation basically just Jesus in a dream and seven years later. God's been doing this thing.
[00:59:44] But now we find ourselves in a place where we need the structure of the five fold ministry we need does that mean because we find ourselves at a place where it's time for us to get off this plateau and move forward and I feel like we're feeling those organizational pieces and just just as a short testimony and that is that our youth and children's team I had a number of tractors and we were able to put them together as the official team the five fold ministry team seven members five fold ministry and and man it's already paying off dividends for us just yet they're working together. I feel like I have a team from zero to 18 now instead of four individual ministries. I feel like we have one team and one ministry that's working together so that kind of wisdom has been great. And each one of those directors fell perfectly into into one of those positions of administration prophetic gift right on down the line. And so so definitely appreciate that and appreciate your guys wisdom in that area. Thanks for taking the time answering my questions today.
[01:00:58] Thanks Mike and thanks for your patience. Hey I'm just going to use an excellent up here we've just got two more questions and since we kind of bungled the first part of it. Are you going to stay about 10 more minutes.
[01:01:08] Yeah about 10. I do have a another two 30 call and while you're to have the next person I want to say to every pastor on board. I know what it feels like to own and love the responsibility of your church and to grip it tightly. I could hear that in Mike's voice you know. You know we started this thing on a wing and a prayer were seven years and I'm hanging on tight. And to be very careful about who gets in front of your people listen I'm not trying to make myself famous. But I really believe the best thing to do is to let me speak to your people because I will say the things that you want to say but you don't feel like you can say that some of that stuff that Mike was saying hey that's a little aggressive it's on purpose because I know what they're thinking because I've been teaching this material for years and I've been hearing the feedback and so I'm going into your church. I'm going to your problem member. And I'm saying what he needs to hear but that you don't want to say. So I know that that poll to say I don't want to put this person in front of our team or not. But if you can see your way to do it I think you need to do that because I've done it all with intentionality and it makes sense. I know this journey I've been here before you and I know what they're thinking and I'm trying to really help you when I do the teaching. So for that we'll move on.
[01:02:41] OK I think there's just one question left just because you can go ahead is the next question but it will be done. OK.
[01:02:48] OK first lady your first name I'm going to ask the question here on this is Phil from new voltage got in to New Jersey and we are getting ready to begin our pastor's meal but we are currently multi-site but not necessarily multi structured. So what we're wanting to know is how should we go about starting off the mail if we should go ahead and do them in the and all of our locations or should we focus on one until we until we can find others to fill the gaps and so forth.
[01:03:24] How many locations do you have. We have three free OK that's that's really you know we've been multi-site now for about five years.
[01:03:39] And you know doing it uniform is so valuable and so important. So if you can do it in all places it's really really good because that primary first campus we don't like say the main campus but that we actually say the broadcast campus because we broadcast from that campus to the other campuses be a live stream. But that that first or primary campus is always going to feel like its more important than the rest. And I try to do everything I can to make sure no one has an excuse to say that. So when we start something new we dont start it until we're ready to do it at all campuses. Now not to say that it can't work the other way but that would just be my personal opinion on how to do it. We have we have dealt with a lot of us versus them kind of feelings. And so we've just learned through that that we're going to go overboard in making sure it's kind of equal for everyone. So that had been my suggestion.
[01:04:38] OK. Then you can pay your bill. Hey everybody that's been on the call it just that you can go and close the queue including Jessica and Jerry. Sorry for the hiccup in the beginning and for all of you that hung on for 15 minutes in your own home. We absolutely appreciate it here. Thanks a lot happy to be on board guys.
[01:05:02] Thank you.
[01:05:02] And I'm praying for you to have a big fall so we'll be praying for it. Thanks again. How to get that.