24toDouble Members Live Q&A – May 2018
24toDouble Members Questions asked:
- How does Jerry grow?
- Jerry’s YouTube channel – Jerry Lawson Leadership Talks
- Mountaintop Marriage Retreat – Jimmy Evans
- My church is local to a megachurch. Is it worth us going through 24toDouble?
- Can I let the leadership participating in 24toDouble move ahead in the trainings to see what’s coming down the chute?
- After the initial meetings, does everyone have to attend the meetings or only those who are directly involved in the trainings?
- We have been using a different gifts assessment. Do you recommend to continue using that or should we use the Gifts and Passions profile offered to 24toDouble members?
- We aren’t having a lot of people coming to the Pastor’s Breakfast. Do you have any ideas of how 24toDouble members can get that off the ground?
- Twin Rivers Worship Center – Joe Dobbins
- If we upgrade, how long do we have access to the materials as 24toDouble members?
- Do you have any plans to update the materials for 24toDouble members?
- How does my existing church board fit into the 5-fold Leadership model?
- What do you do with current ministries that don’t align with the 24toDouble method?
[00:00:02] Well hello pastors. This is Richard chastely 24 to devil. I've got my partner Pastor Jerry Lawson on here with me. He's going to jump in in just a minute. If this is your first time with us here's how it works. Hit six on your phone. It'll put you in a queue and when it's your turn to ask a question it will prompt you to do so. All we ask is that you say your first name and your church name as your start in the process so we'll kind of know who you are and where you come from. Before we get to that let me say R OUR Q and A call rhythm is normally we do this every month with the exception of two months which is usually June and December. And even in May as I'm looking at the numbers right now we've got about half the number of people in here that we normally have on right now. So if you've got a burning question in your soul about 24 to double today would be a great day to jump in the queue and ask because we've got a little bit more margin in there than we normally do. OK. So I am in a space right now personally where I am having to do one thing how to relearn how to do something really well and that is to grow. It is time for me as a business leader in a ministry got to go to the next level. I pretty much do everything under the 24 to double and it's time for me to rise up and be the guy that is the visionary.
[00:01:22] And so I've hired a strategist. We'll talk about that more as we go forward. But that really got me thinking as we came into this call you know what I sort of ask myself Hey I wonder I wonder what Jerry does when he's when he needs to go to the next level how is he pouring into himself so very first of all thanks for taking the time to be on the call was today I always look for this. And then you can kind of take it away and talk about this personal slash professional growth question that I asked you. OK. Yeah that's a great question. And I I could talk about this for a long time if I was you jump in and get me back on to keep going if you want to put a couple to come to my mind immediately when you talk about you growing as an individual. First of all that's the right question because you don't have a problem that is not a problem in your mirror. Every single problem you have is in your mirror. I feel so motivated when we have a poor weekend and I know that I can fix it because I can fix me but sit back and go well my staff is terrible. You know my LBS on the right side of my volunteers are no good but make enough money that I make excuses like that I'm at a dead end.
[00:02:39] I can't do anything but as long as I realize if I'm a better leader my staff or my volunteers are better you know if I'm a better leader then I overcome the issues of money or population or all those kinds of things. So Richard is asking the right question How can I get better. All of your other problems are secondary to fixing you. If you can fix you. Everything else gets fixed. God fixes everything you know it's workable. But it also he empowers you to be able to fix those problems so a couple of things you have to do because you have to plan for your growth and make space for it. When I first started out in ministry I would read books about leadership I would work on my personal growth and development at night because I don't know the full time job. That was the only time I could do it and when I went into full time ministry I kind of did the same thing. I filled my days just full of you know first thing in the morning until late at night and afterwards church events activities sermon writing meetings community stuff hospital visitation all that counseling stuff. And so again you know my growth time was you know that night or something like that and I had a coach hired a coach one time for about two years just a person the coach me and being a better leader. And one of my conversations with him was so eye opening and simple maybe have you guys already know this but he said Hey you're you're a professional leader you're just part of your job. It's OK to work on your personal growth during the work day.
[00:04:17] And honestly I never thought about that before you know just literally put it on your calendar you know Monday morning I have a hard time thinking about details and stuff so I don't match your challenger block of time on Monday. Just personally gross so I'm going to listen to Top Shelf Communicare so my favorite creatures are going to both fill me and inspire me at the same time. Then I'm going to make sure that my podcast is updated. I'm going to have great people like Michael Hiatt on their Craig Groeschel on there. Lots of people who know Pete you think a lot of conferences that maybe you don't have time to go to or you don't have the money or whatever to spend hotel airfare and conference fee. If you wait about three months they'll have all their speaking out their own podcast and it's usually free. So when I'm working out of the gym I'm listening to a podcast about something like that so I'm constantly doing things that fill me. I think every pastor every leader listening to me right now should stop at some point today and make a list of two columns things that during the things that fill me and you need to make it your goal to eliminate the things that drain you so that you can make make room for the things that fill you in the more field. And I don't just mean like fill me with ideas or teach me stuff. I mean you're just filled up a motion one like for you the thing that fills you might be fiction. You know be golf. That's fine. It fills your tank and it makes you feel like you're not going stir crazy new you will do better when you're four. My one of my favorite quotes from the late great John hosting this.
[00:06:01] Joe's dad John is being used to say you know I want to look at my spirituality like a big barrel a 55 gallon drum. And when I go to share something with anyone a sermon or a leadership message or whatever or just a one on one conversation island off the top of that barrel I'll only keep the barrelful and dip off the top. Now I can confess to you as a pastor a longtime pastor. There have been many times I've had to had been way over to scrape off the bottom of that barrel to share something with someone and some of you pass. Right now you see your faith in the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Even while I'm saying that so one of the ways you grow it is not just that you're listening to this podcast or reading this book you're going to this conference is that you're creating space margin in your life. No margin not margarine but margin has to do with space to the size of the top and the bottom of a piece of paper. You think about picking up a book. If you didn't have a margining it would be almost impossible to really be painful to your brain to function if the word went from top to bottom all the way from left to right to the heart. And many of us we live our lives that were just no margin and it kills creativity. You know it kills. You know you can't even think about anything. To be honest with you. I'm just sharing with Richard.
[00:07:24] This is probably one of the busiest years of my life and that's OK because I knew it coming and I planned it and there are rhythms to life and you know it's something you plan for. You can kind of endure it but it has created a like a like an emptiness of my creativity and my motivation and my spontaneity. I'm aware of that and I confess that to my accountability partners one of those being my wife. So they know things have got to change in the rhythm of my life. And if if you're like me I used to not run that way. I used to have accountability partners to talk to. And I did run with no margin all the time and I was just going from Canada. And so you know I feel bad about not being creative creative or spontaneous with new ideas. So I grab another book and just wage more stuff in on me. So let me just wrap it up by saying this. There are many many different ways for you to learn and grow as a podcast there's a friend who knows more than you know the acquaintance somewhere there's mastermind groups there's 24 to double. There are lots of different ways for you grow but at the base of it all you have to have a rhythm of life that allows that knowledge to speak to you otherwise you're like an oily duck's back. No matter what sport only you just rolled right out. You've got to create space in your life create a godly rhythm in your life.
[00:08:58] Couple years ago I was praying at the beginning of the year I always sought out my 21 day fast and morning pray with my church for 21 days and I was asking God for one word. Give me one word that would speak to me for the whole year and he gave me the word rhythm and I prayed into that for three weeks and I heard the Holy Spirit saying dear you've got to get a better rhythm in your life. I want to do so much more. I have so much more creativity in you. I have so many more gifts in you because your rhythm is not right. You're never going to get there. I went back praying that preached the IT I worked on it all that year went back the very next year. For another year. God gave me the word rhythm with the I thought well I'm not hearing from God you know I just my own Paul he's trying to speak and I'm not in the right place. And I kept praying and I heard the Holy Spirit saying no I'm going give you the same word can you get it right. All right. Get your rhythm right. So maybe this is the word for some of you today. But you do grow to become all that God intended you to become. You're going to have to create space. I can throw or any other leader speaking into your life can throw the most amazing manna from heaven down on you. But if you don't have space for it to stick and germinate growing you nothing is going to come of it. Great the space hey that was that was I mean I daresay that was pure gold. Jerry Cilmi before we start answering questions let me ask a couple of things.
[00:10:26] Well let me say something the call to action pastor. Well that's your phone if you own your phone right now. Just switch over to the calendar. Within our own there to sit down and write down and your rhythm your I call it it's mislay like in the morning I write down my flow and I protect from 5 o'clock to 9 o'clock in the morning. I protect it above all else I have some breakfast in there and those kind of things. But in reality if I'm if I if I don't have that time that time I look out time to speak to God if I get out of that flow I quickly become not myself you you said you said you made reference between what fulfills you and what drains you a minute ago and first of all I want to tell you if you've got you're doing a lot of things that drain you. I just want to tell you this. You're in the right place being on this call today being part of 24 to double this whole church discipleship model is today designed to do one thing if it doesn't do anything else get the right people in the right places with you being the first person that leads that. So with the right thing.
[00:11:31] What what brings you the reason I'm asking that is I want to see if you can set some of these guys free from the idea that ministry has got to hurt you and how do you how do you how do you and that old so preaching every week drains me so now I know when I first heard a pastor say this I was like oh I wish he knew what it's like to pastor where I pass you had a preacher and my did the first probably four or five years of my church that I started Daystar. I preached every single Sunday for about five years for when my grandfather died and I went out of town to preach his funeral. I mean that was that's not heroic is stupid and prideful really more than stupid it's prideful. And if I don't break about every six weeks and take two weeks off I get drained. There's just no doubt about it. It drains me. Hospital visitation drains me. Now leaders pick people that are elders leaders in my church staff members. I get really motivated to go visit the hospital the people that are close. I really love that. But as our church has grown I've been able to realize there are other people who can who can visit hospice. For me Pastor for the only staff member start bringing a deacon or an elder start bringing a young leader with you. And then before long you hand off some of those visits. Not all of them to him counseling journeyings me now. I require everyone on my staff and we have several volunteers who also do it to counsel people. And I do it too. I count the people because I want to remember what it's like to be that new believer or a person whose life is just a mess. How can I preach a sermon to people I don't understand.
[00:13:19] So I don't I don't eliminate counseling but I push as many of those counseling appointments to different people as I can because I have just found that it drains me. I was just on the phone with a pastor or text message with a pastor friend of mine from Huntsville counseling fails him. You know he loves you know he just continues to counsel people and that just builds him up. But you have to figure out what things drain you and what things feel you let me let me give you another example that that I should have told you guys about before I started doing something where I've trained my staff once a month at a leadership talk. And I started filming them and capturing that with you in line 24 to devil pastors in mine thinking that I could also just provide fuel training or maybe your leadership team or your staff and that's on my YouTube channel. I've got it right now. I've got about 18 or 20 leadership talks on there. Some of them are inspirational like you can't know a god you don't pray to. Some of them a little more like sitting God sized goals losing your edge building a winning team. The power of focus that they're in this business. Winning with people's time management so some of them are very practical some of them very spiritual. But you know one thing that drains me is just being the end all to everything. So I like to outsource things when I can if I've got you know we will sit as a staff and listen to the Craig Groeschel leadership podcast.
[00:15:05] It's about a 20 minute call and we're talking here about the amount about that 25 minutes maybe you can outsource some of that you know build yourself up not by you personally always digging in the scriptures and you always finding things out you always being the guy to speak at everything. But you know received from other people I know that Richard just recently launched a sermon. All of my sermons that I had written for for years and years and years we're putting them out on a Web site I think you can get access to that. Now it's got a video Bolpur that you could play. You have a video screen in your church has got all the notes he's got the notes that you print putting your worship God to get all that stuff. And you know I know God speaks to you but to me I get I get drained. You know I'm the only source I've got to constantly hear from God no matter how big a homerun we knock on Sunday. I feel like on Monday I got to climb back up Mt. Sinai and get another word from God so it drains me to be the only source. So we've got some things like this out here. Leadership is just called leader Jerry Lawson leadership talk. That's the youtube channel journalism leadership talks and then I think Richard has now launched the sermon resource option that you guys can get into Richard could you speak to that. Yes and we're very close to launching that in fact. As with any cutting that you're trying to do for pastors whatever you schedule the time to build something it takes twice as long and there's a hiccup in some of the technology as is there with this conference call because of my phone sort of dropping out.
[00:16:44] And whenever you come across a challenge God always provides so I tasted Jerry and I said keep talking because I'm having some technical issues I can't hear the call in the thing. So we are we're dangerously close on it's going to be a sermon not today going to be the Web site where they're building that it's not live yet. I'm hoping by the next time we're on a call together this thing is up and running and whistle and so. But that's my prayer and if you think about us pray for that because it's been a it's been really challenging on that end. And we'll also hear it we'll put the link to your youtube page in the follow up e-mail on this as well. So if you guys just want to wait for that we'll have that to you later today or first thing tomorrow. OK. We've got a full two Algieri so are you ready to jump in a of sorts of questions. Yes let me let me play one other thing about rhythm but for God. Before we answer those questions and that you guys if you walk away going that's that's really true. I got to do that. I got to make some space. I've got to make time. I got to. It will never happen until you live your life on a calendar. If it's not on the calendar it does not happen if my wife you know wants to tell me that my son has a baseball game. She didn't tell me she sends me a calendar invite. We leave our home lives. I mean it's crazy if you want me to grill chicken tonight.
[00:18:01] It will be a calendar invite 530 grill chicken. I mean we live by that calendar and it may seem personal but it will help you so much so that being said I put some things on my calendar like an annual prayer retreat. I put that on my calendar because it won't happen if I just sit around saying well I need at some point when I find in time to get along with God for three or four days. No I put it on the calendar for the annual marriage retreat and I don't mean like go to a conference. But just my wife and me we take the Jimmy Evans mountaintop Marriage Retreat booklet. Go look at a mountaintop Marriage Retreat. Jimmy Evans fantastic little resource. Again you don't have to figure out how to do it how to be a good husband. The book tells you how I put personal prayer retreat and then a marriage retreat on the calendar. All right. Then also put the in a quarterly study break on Monday and Tuesday. Every quarter we're doing nothing but study for sermons in the future. I also put in a quarterly sabbatical break for Sabbath break where it's two days a Monday and Tuesday once a quarter where I don't work or study or do anything but I just I just rest and I spend time with God. So that's two days every quarter and I put that on my calendar religiously and now I don't always honor it I usually do.
[00:19:31] Sometimes I don't but the fact that I got quarterly these dates out there means that more often than I ever have in my life I'm creating that margin for myself so ministries about rhythms it's very rare that a person in ministry has 85 cents it's you just getting blown up for three months. You got to press pause for a couple of weeks. It's about rhythm. So put that on your calendar and make it. Put a box around it so it can be something else. And Richard can we get to the first questions now. Guys it looks like we may have lost. Rich OK Vassar's. Go get I am not sure if you guys can hear or not. So here's what I'm going to do. I don't know if you guys I thought it was on my end. I think it's on Ongeri and so I'm going to go ahead. Light you up right here and we'll see if we've still got Geria or Hello asters I'm not sure either. Hey this is. Can you hear me now. Yes I'm backing him. Yeah. Hey guys we're sorry about that. I have no idea what's going on with this. I know that the conference line that we're using is updating their platform their user interface and maybe we're still on the old one and that's the issue. So sorry about that. I think somebody from Victorious life is with us now. Yes. This market or victorious Life Church in the Dallas area suburb called Lewisville. Hello. Hey Mark. Yeah we're here with. OK just wanted to ask a couple of questions and I know you've got a line full of issues going on and that's that that happens in front of the DFW Metroplex is interesting.
[00:23:31] Have a church that averages around one hundred sixty five to 185 on Sunday morning Gateway Church. I mean the Gateway Robert Morris is right down the road in fact ten minutes from our front door and you pass one of his satellite churches so when you start talking about having a wow factor. Absolutely. Best service that you can possibly produce in the environment that I'm in here. You understand the income of about hundred fifty a year total. Everything up against you know they spend more on theirs. Their sound system than you know my sanctuary cost of building a house the way it is. It's first class and is a lot of churches in our area. Is it possible to do the 24 to double in that kind of environment where you know what's involved with that. That's my first question. Yes. So listen I know the struggle is real. I understand that there's a church literally five miles from one of my news campuses a Church of the Highlands which is about twice the size of Gateway no major gateway church is a church of 30000. But the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex has 7 million people I think think what you have to get in your mind is that you know there are lots and lots of people who don't know and I remind my staff of the group just like Richard always tells me we're professional Christians we know about Robert Morris. We know about Andy's family. We know Craig Gross. We know all these people and the people we're going after. They don't know about those people even if they've been in church.
[00:25:15] Most of them don't know and most people in the DFW Metroplex really don't think or know about the church and really probably most of them have a negative connotation of it which is always the case with a giga church in a major city. So I think you really have to put that out of your mind and just accept that if there is somebody coming and he's sort of a church Hopper Yes you're going to have a hard time catching on a church hopper because you hop over the gateway. But as far as law people I mean what they really want is a genuine relationship genuine smile. You know I've been to Gateway many times and there's a lot of people with big smiling faces and all that you know just. Yeah but there's nobody more genuine than some of the top members of your church are very genuine. And if they're out the front door they're leading small groups they're welcoming people they're greeting people that is just as powerful an experience as that greeting experience is at Gateway. So that's the way I view it because honestly my newest campus which is a campus of about 200 people is right literally five miles from the Church of the Highlands Huntsville campus. And that thing dwarfs us and they do have more money and they got all the stuff that all the bells and whistles Yeah. Well you know I guess it's about finding our niche and what are the people we most can see we're just starting this process as you can tell by my call. Yeah finding that we're just in that process of just starting that discovery process. Can I ask a follow up question.
[00:26:50] I know you're busy. Yes please. As a follow up question the rude commentary teams the teams that you have in 24 to double. We have an microcosm you don't say the vestigial or the or the you don't say. We have a follow up issue. You know that kind of thing. Would you advise. You know you know I want to take the whole point months into this program like apply to get in a hurry. Nonetheless while we're doing this I'm trying to have church to Yeah. And we've got to like a big day coming up here shortly. Would it be possible that you show the big events to kind of just let the leadership of that group see a little bit of the advance train. You know I've got the whole program so advanced a little bit in advance without trying to rush it. So they kind of get a feel of what we want as we're going Yeah. Big tourist like churches. How old were 65 or 70 years old but we moved our building a decade ago to a new area. New buildings new everything. OK. Kind of a reboot. About 30 I've been here 30 years. I'm in a place where the next 10 I'm going to need to transition. Well I'm going to bring a younger guy and or get younger period. Just you know and my whole stature and so on my staff is under 40 now but you know that's what I'm doing. So that's where we're at well with a church that's that mature.
[00:28:20] I do think that you can certainly do that you can kind of lean ahead and what you're trying to get right now is momentum you're just trying to get a wow factor. And yet times thing just grow just because it's exciting it's not that you're fundamentally changed a whole lot it's just that people are excite you know the Bible says where there's a vision you put it up Habakkuk says make it like on a billboard and people will run into it. Nothing's happened because you have a vision that has really changed but in the hearts of people it's motivational so if you can find a way to just motivate them hey this is where we're going. And I absolutely think that's a good idea and that's why we front load the training with the low hanging fruit. The stuff that is easiest to do and create momentum like big events and first impressions and shocking things like that that you can quickly do and people can see it because we know it's a war to really change the mentality of people it's a battle. And so you want to have some early successes some wins early on. So it's all about getting momentum early. Well thank you so much. I'll be listening. Thank you. Great Mark. Well hey hey yeah welcome. Hey can I just say one thing that Jerry everybody listen and no matter what kind of organization you're in whether it's a ministry or a for profit nonprofit whatever it is there's always going to be that one big hill you've got to climb that one big obstacle you've got to overcome. It's a gateway church for Mark for every one of you on the call.
[00:29:52] There's something in your mind there's going away and if we could just get over this hump it's always there. It's not. If Gateway wasn't right there it would be something else. So I think I understand that there's an obstacle the biggest obstacle is that there's an enemy that doesn't want the people to see the inside of your church. So I think not letting the obstacle win is the operative thought there. I think yes. OK. All right let's keep moving here. Now the latest is crossposting. Yes hi this is Shane brothers from Cross Point Community Church. I have kind of an elementary question. We haven't had our first meeting. And my question is do we have at those various monthly meetings. Now I read about and found the video concerning the coalition of the willing but after those initial meetings do we continue to have that group or do we get a little more specific as we go along when it comes to for instance the pastor's meal and the following ones. Do all those people have to be present or just those who that ministry area affects that question. So I would say I always want more rather than less. I would try to get everybody on board to start with and just invite them all back. But in terms of like we're working on first impressions or were working on a follow up team or whatever. I'm going to specifically say now you guys you've got to be here we have to have you here for this. And I hope everyone else will.
[00:31:36] And so that's that's kind of the way I like to go because you're trying to move a big ship and the more people you have on board the better. The truth is this training while it has a lot of what to do. I've been very careful to include most of why we do. So there is a lot of scriptural reasons for doing what we do and so when you start changing things you're going to have to take away a Sunday school classroom that's not popular because you need pastors meal or you're going to have a more leadership team into a different model because you want to get the fivefold in place. They're going to be some things that knock over some sacred cows and so you never know who's going to hear that negativity. So that's why I want as many people in that room hearing the vision you know because again it's more wide than it is was a lot of what. But there's more. Why. So I want to have as many people as I can. Even though we may not be specifically covering there what tonight like what to do for small groups or what they think we're going to be covering the why every mom and I would imagine that I'm hearing that probably helps reinforce or encourage the other groups so those that are working on that area they get they get the why and they can encourage them in that specific area. One follow up one follow up question. We have been using the network course for our spiritual gift inventory and helping people figure out what their spiritual gifts not are 24 to double has the spiritual gift inventory as well. Do you have a recommendation.
[00:33:19] Do we set the network one aside and do this one do you use both. Any thoughts on that. I would just say I'm not familiar with the network one but the one that we have is proprietary to us. No one uses it but us. We wrote it. Dr. Owen Weston who has two doctorates of ministry worked with me and my team and we together built the theology behind the one we have and it's very practical in its focus so it appreciates the theology and the spirituality but it is also very practical because we know we're trying to get people directly into ministry out of there. So while I can't speak to other other spiritual get past I can tell you that when we have out I'm very proud of it. We put a lot of work into it. I would say go go that route. OK that answered my question and I wouldn't say on top of that. Don't don't miss the point that it's the gifts and passions test and the passions part is basically people are telling you will the where they'll serve in your church. And so I don't know this other Testino but I'll tell you that the big difference is ours is a catalyst to get people to move from rows into volunteer positions. It literally is a vehicle to get people to move big. And we're going to tell you specifically where they should move to. They're going to know it's going to make sense for them in all of that. So don't miss the passions part of this is the game changer in my mind. I'm glad you hearing that Richard. I've seen dozens of spiritual tests.
[00:35:06] I have never seen a gifts and passions pass except for hours. It may be the only one out there. Oh god. Thanks. All right thank you. Hey we probably need to pick up the pace a little bit we've got about 25 minutes. We have seven questions what's in here just so you know how to keep the ball rolling here. Hi. Am I on your own. All right. This is Pastor Oliver beams from the bridge church in Glen Carbon Illinois we're right outside of the the Illinois side of St. Louis Missouri metro area. So I just had one question on kind of a program and then I just have to one sentence answer things about logistics. Question three guys. But anyway I'm in the trial period right now and so we're kind of going to figure out if this is something we want to do have been real real appreciative of all the materials thus far. The one question I had was about the pastors breakfast. We're at a point where I totally understand that idea of doing it once every single week. But it just kind of looking at where we are now we would be at best right now and obviously 24 we hope would improve this at best once a month when we actually have a new attender to come to that. If you have any suggestions of getting that off the ground when you kind of have limited people to drop from to begin with yes.
[00:36:41] One of the ways we started is we say the truth of the matter is most churches have never taken their volunteer teams and done gifts and passion surveys and since we do that in pastors like this the one of the best ways to honor that and gain momentum is to just go ahead and schedule your regular attenders to the pastors breakfasts by last name or whatever split it up so you've got a small number you know a half dozen or so and that'll give you several weeks to do it and you start to begin building momentum. It's new. People are excited about it. And the reason I started doing that is because of course Daystar is the pilot program for 2014 double. And when we started it we didn't do that. We actually had several members go hey why can't I go to the breakfast because there's just new and exciting. So we started rolling back in so you know in the event that you get through your whole membership. Now let me say that while while you're inviting your members of course you're also inviting every newcomer every newcomer. And so you might have six regular members. One newcomer six members only six members three newcomers. But that's fine. You don't treat them all the same. And then when you get finished if you find that you need to do it just once a month. That's not ideal but sometimes that's where you have to land for a little while. And that would be OK. Let me also tell you Pastor if you're if you think you're in the St. Louis area. Yes I would. I would encourage you to look up when rivers worship center Pastor Joe Dobbins.
[00:38:16] Joe is there also a 24 to devil Pastor Joe is actually called this material Horace. And if you're trying to decide hey this what we want to do. Joe would be a great guy to talk to. And just go visit his church. My favorite isn't Ottar I think in that e-mail sequence Richard sent an interview with with Joe. Yeah I saw that yeah. Going to say that I'm not sure that Oria ok thanks. Hey guys and then it'll be real quick. First is if we upgrade not just the trial obviously. How long do we have access to materials that just 24 months or is that unlimited. And then the other thing is just curious if there's been any thought of maybe at some point re filming the modules. So it's directly for an online audience and just a little more updated from 2011 2012. So that's at hate. First let me just say thank you for saying that because Jerry and I just had that conversation before we got on today. We're not just we will be creating new content here shortly. That will will add as an addendum to the current content and it will be Jerry teaching 24 to double to you and your staff sitting in front of a computer will still have the audience driven 24 double modules that we have now. Here's the thing I've been wrestling with. You know when we have this for the last couple of years we have 500 churches that are actively engaged in it right now and our question is always are we going to mess people up by doing that. But if it doesn't then we'll apologize for that.
[00:39:55] We're also going to move the platform to a more modern membership site sometime between now and the end of the year. So great questions. Yeah. And you will have this forever. As long as you have access to everything you paypal. OK. All right. Well thank you my love Jesus comes in Jesus. Sooner or later the credit card bill will be paid for Chavira and I'll be out at that point. So don't worry. All right. Thanks for the questions. All right. I think this is Derek or Christina day. I do and this is my wife Christina. Yeah. Derek Slater Yes sir. I'm Derek I'm from Bethel Pentecostal church and blue while in Illinois just south of Chicago. I just want to encourage everyone I heard all these brain news people program. Stay the course keep going. It is so awesome so worth it read simple church read all the books that they suggest and be about my father. My question to that. Yes. Yes. Believe me I go around well what about funding for double and I'm excited. And well we are module 15 haven't watched yet because I decided to hit pause on this is something that I could relate to the people that just starting in or one talks about vision and really just breaks down for people and my church is 70 years old this year. About five years ago I asked my pastor hey what's our church vision. And he said well seek and save the last. And I wasn't satisfied with that. I want it like a target not a general answer.
[00:41:57] So this past year we've been praying about it and really just you know having small conversations but it took 14 months for my whole leadership group is about 35 people. Serene simple church. And after they read it then the light bulb went off. Oh. Oh OK. This is what we're doing. And I say that to leave you to read it. But we are we are right there at the cusp of just kind of working this out and you know get down to about three or four words and very exciting about you know all of this but I just want to say you know it does take time and a lot of prayer and God is really moving within our church. My question is is how long how much longer should I. I just stamped this out ill next meeting. All right here we go. Or should we take just a little bit further. Like I said we will work on it realistically having a heart like heart to heart conversations probably about. We started Magowan and we are like I said we are another 15 but for probably the last two months we've actually been in conversations of all these things that's a tough question there. And you know one that to be honest with you to give you a good opinion I would need more. We'd have to have a deeper conversation. What I can say here is that if you're 15 months into this you clearly know the heart of what God is saying to 24 the devil you know and I'm only 24 The Devil is a prophetic word to the church.
[00:43:48] I don't believe it's just a program that you know could could randomly be picked up at any time in the. I think I think it's supposed to be and this these in the church history it's a prophetic word. You have received that word. And you are a spirit filled believer the Holy Spirit living dwelling in speaking to you. I think you can hear that. And you can make those choices and I'll be happy to get a conversation online and give more details. But just at this level and for the purpose of this call I can tell you that you have confidence that you're hearing from God that you heard the prophetic word of this meeting and you can follow the prompting the Holy Spirit about those big decisions. Look I mean I don't mind jumping on a plane and taking you know for some lunch either. So make them Hey we can do that or we can get a phone call you know either way. Connect with Rick he can get you the right place to do that. Absolutely. Absolutely. I have just provided any e-mails. Derek. Yeah and let me just say that. Yeah I'm sorry. I know I've been in contact with your with your secretary. So I do I have contact information. So when I'm available to be able to do that I will pull the trigger on that. And I'm I'm pretty excited to say to now that we've got one of Jerry's staff members is actually helping us with 24 to double Liyana who is doing a phenomenal job. Jessica who is the rock star.
[00:45:21] Me a couple of months ago we were looking for somebody and she said Hey why don't we get somebody from Jarius staff and I'm like that's brilliant. And so now we were building this silent team of people that are just phenomenal and passionate about reaching people who are far from God. So yeah just shoot us an email there. I go one more question. Sure sure. I have a church board that decide on finances and decide on when we get a new pastor. They interview my pastor has actually been pastor for 53 years and there's no sense there's no right of anyone to replace him right now. Question is what do I do with those people and the Pfeifle to merge them together or do I have a separate entity of groups. I'm not sure I quite understand that question and go ahead. So basically I have five people on my board that decide you know how the church spends its money what they do with the money who gets paid and their sect and responsibility. That's never been held is the study on who would replace pastor. Other than that really they just meet you know Oregon get a church parking lot. We're going to build a new garage. No new windows. Stuff like that they've done for as far as where the church or running of those five people. I actually have two people that do not display 24 hour meetings. They do.
[00:47:00] I have three of them actually are on teams already to go all but points for double result I'm asking is five fold with team more smarter for me just to bring them into the mix that way and the people that don't want to be part of the trouble don't have to be I just wanted to know if you guys ever had gone through any situations like that. Yes. Thanks for that. And I'm going to speak to that in a way that could be caustic to everyone. So when you make change pastor when you make change you have lots of resistance. There's always going to be a reason why we've gone this way. And people want to go that way. That's why I tell you that turning a church is like turning a cruise ship in a speedboat. It has to be done slowly. And so what that means is if I had three people I had 60 percent who were behind 20 40 level that's 60 percent would have won it with me more often than the 60 percent that would have leadership positions that I would be bragging on. You know whatever you reward you get more. So I would be elevating those 60 percent I'd be talking about them and the others. You know I would I would invest in them off line. You know I I had to do that when I came in and turned around. What was a 60 year old church with 60 60 year olds in it called Glory Hill Church. And you know I knew I wouldn't be making those elderly people happy on Sunday. But I knew I could come visit them on Monday I could drink coffee and sit on the front porch and you know kind of connect with them. So you know I had to keep them on the boat. They would physically show up.
[00:48:44] They would continue to give and they spun the vision even though they didn't walk out the vision. And so I don't want to divide and conquer I don't want to push people out. I want to keep them on board and keep them living and unless they are a major standing in your way and they're causing a major problem I let them ride on. But before long we're going to grow. We're going to add new leaders and where you've got three out of five that are 24 that double leaders man maybe you go to seven out of nine you know the average people and before long their voice is quieter and the voice of change is louder. So I'm I have to cut that loose there. We've got some other calls we've got to please set up a phone call or a visit and we will talk a whole lot more about this. Well do you think they are I think this is maybe endevor for Brenda. Brenda. Brenda in Boston. Blessings to you all. You did. I thank you. I have a couple of questions. One is some time ago Well we started back in July of last year had a hard time for a while getting traction. We finally got traction by the fall. And we've been going really well a lot of great insight into the program.
[00:50:13] And then we came to a place where we had to deal with the team and follow up team and for a couple of years now we have been struggling trying to implement and then trying to implement different models and not that they're all unrelated but tweaking and working and tweaking but somehow just can't seem to get the commitment of the people who are supposed to be doing them. And then there was a problem with the with us trying to get folks to not only not only follow up with people but be accountable for that follow up and when we were when we were working with all of that as we've been working with all of that coming up on the module 5 which deals with the patch so here I am wondering how what would you recommend that we do because I felt like in my spirit that we need to pause here and really kind of get it right. But at the same time I don't want to lose the momentum that we have already begun to develop. And you know as we as we've been working through the program. So do you have any recommended recommendations for me with regard to that. Well thanks for that description of what you're dealing with Brenda and I just feel like I should say this a major part of my prayer time is praying for 24 double churches and pastors I pray for you guys this week. And it's because of things like this you know you're toiling you're working you're you're you're laying out the vision and you're giving an example of what it's supposed to look like with your own life. And then there are still troubles. And that's because we have a real adversary a real enemy. And he's fighting. And here's what I would say. I would say this smaller and slower is OK if we have high quality if we have excellence and we're we're producing what we want.
[00:52:28] So if I could have you know less you know I I firmly say we don't have to have a student ministry when we start a new campus at Daystar Church. We don't even start with student ministry. We don't have that we have we we have small groups and we have children's minister willing have student ministry to start with because I would rather I'd rather be incomplete and just not have everything and make sure that these few things I do have are high quality and I am modeling free almost of course I'm modeling it myself. But spirit of excellence. But I'm modeling with all my leaders. So I've got a leader that's doing something halfway. I don't want them in that area. I'd rather not have that area working at all. So if I'm hearing you right Brenda I think you might have to slow down and you might have to have less of your program enacted so that you can say that what we do have looks like it's supposed to look. I'd rather have 50 percent that looks like it's supposed to look then 80 percent were half of it looks good and half of it does. OK. And so I hear you saying that specifically for that kid team for that kill and follow up. KING Yeah. Because I was so still. What I also interpret US saying is it's OK you know. Yes. Slow down don't necessarily lose total momentum. You can continue on with with other aspects of the program like module a second module 7 going why are you still working with that really work to make it precise.
[00:54:11] According to the vision rather than you know it's not something that can now we're done so we could keep revisiting it as a subset of our future meeting. Is that so. Yes yes. And for every pastor listening to me right now this little equation I typed up in my notes in our conversation Brenda vision plus testimony equals fire. I could also say vision plus testimony equals momentum. Here's what you do. You even if you are not able to get the prayer and follow up commitment level where you want it to and you're not fully implementing that. You keep preaching the vision of that and why that matters you keep talking about follow. You keep talking about you know the proud of the son and you keep talking about Jesus leaving the 99 going after the war. You keep preaching don't preach anything that doesn't fulfill 24 hidup. I mean this 24 double is a whole church discipleship model every bit of it from the beginning to the end. I can preach sermons and you can too around all of it so overtly connect the dots for them get up and preach the sermon of the ninety nine Jesus in the 99 going after the one and then tie that together and say then that is why we've got to have more followers so even if you don't physically have boots on the ground making all these things happen you're preaching vision. Right so that's that's one half of this equation you vision preach vision preach vision preach vision. The other and not just preach when are you having conversations when you're doing Facebook like videos everywhere you go. You're talking vision. OK.
[00:55:53] The other half is testimony so you'll be testifying all the time whatever is going well if people only get one team in 2014 that will going well you brag on that one theme till they are here. You just keep testifying because the Bible says the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. What that means is when Jesus does something and we testify at what Jesus has done in one area that becomes a prophetic statement that he's going to do in another area. So testify often that is the moral equals fire. Thank you so much. Yes. The question I had and I hope that you can help me much like you did the gentleman before you asked about another ministry in the area that was doing 24 to double and could be a source of support and just sharing and just you know a model you know of some sort. We are in the New England area. And so I I had inquired about whether or not you know of any churches around here even into New York and those areas that are doing the program and could be a good model church to visit. Really the answer Yeah yeah. Yeah. When we feel like we answer this every month and I wish there was a better answer but we don't keep track of who of everybody and keep it in a way that it's public that goes back from my my life doing church construction consulting where we used to build a church for somebody and they'd love us and then right after that we sent a bunch of people to them to see the space.
[00:57:40] And so there's about 80 percent of people that wouldn't want the rest of the world and they're doing 24 to double and so there's this whole process we'd have to go through to get permission and set step up and make sure that it's OK every time. And we just chose early on not to do that again run in a very lean crew. Much like what you're doing. It was one of those scenes where we'd love to have a method for doing that because churches are coming in and graduating for 20 40 double so often it's a much bigger undertaking than what we're. Our team is capable of right now. But hey there's always Coleman and churches are constantly coming in and out of the mothership and seeing how what can happen when you do this whole church discipleship model called 20 double well and they have it they they've got good systems and processes that I think any church at any size could could learn from you. So say if you do visit Daystar you're going to we're going to connect you with a lot of different people so. Whereas right now you have a once a month phone call with me that we share with maybe 90 other pastors sometimes you get to get to know the person that's over every department that they are you get direct connection with them and so it be good for you if you want to come and visit Liana we'll set that up and it's you connected with me and a lot of other people. Great. Thank you very much. And I understand that maybe will be the first church in New England but if there's anybody else out there who want. Oh no. Oh you one there.
[00:59:15] Yeah. Yeah. I love the free hundred churches. Yes. I'm trying to plan that would turn around and help a brother after we've succeeded. That's what I meant. I told them Yeah and there is I'm I'm looking right now. Facebook I've got a Facebook friend who's a 24 year old pastor in New England. And I can tell you I'm not great with names. Richard talked about these numbers. Twenty three hundred churches. This guy I got curly hair and he's in a church of God Church in Boston and I cannot remember his name. I would love is. Mike I can't remember his last name but if I think of his name for this over over you can go see here. Sounds great. Thank you so much. Or you can just google curly haired my pastor and I'm good right now. No. Hey Jerry we've got three more people in the queue do we have time to do these questions. Yes. Yes. You know what you just heard you got out the wall waiting super. Hey if we can if we can win these last three two of your best questions and then we'll kind of do a speed round. And this is first Baptist I think. Yeah first Baptist up in Illinois a lot of Beacon calls excuse me Illinois calls to questions real quick. What do you do with current ministries that don't align with the 24 to double method like for example a grounds crew or stuff like that. Yes though I pool grounds crew in the first impressions. We had all that together you know.
[01:00:49] And if it is a good excuse you're here at a Baptist church maybe churches have bill boards and committees. So this is a good excuse to pull some things together maybe you know eliminate some of the laborious you know meeting structure that can just show choke you to death and may pull teams together even possibly eliminate some teams because some teams are just legacy things things that we used to need and we don't need anymore. But for us things like security grounds and maintenance all of that goes under first impression who put all that while Team first to put all that together. And so we have only literally an artwork we only have seven teams. OK I only have seven teams and so yeah just man whatever makes sense to you. Just just combine them and put them together. Ok second question quickly we're just beginning the process of building our teams. How do we avoid putting all the best leaders in the first couple of teams. We don't want all the right people in just one place. Yes. Actually you probably will put all the best people in the first couple of teams and then you'll have to ask a lot of those guys to be in more than one team. I mean just be honest. And then their motivation has got to be that you know when they come to you and go past. I mean I mean three teams you know then you're saying hey what I need to do is replicate yourself.
[01:02:15] You go out and find because people in general they expect the pastor to go find someone to you know to do their ministry or join their small group or whatever. And this ministry 24 year old is all about teaching people that you know it's only it's not on the pastor he's not a hireling you know he's he's got a deferral. Sounds great Jerry Richard thanks so much guys appreciate you. Thanks for having me. All right think this is Reginald that well fragile investment recommendations a pastor of a church with just shy of two years old. Here in Birmingham Alabama. It's called a new chapter church. And we got started with double the latter part of March and just in time to make preparation for Easter Sunday. And I am so impressed with the structure and the information because it helped us tremendously. We had seven Sundays in a row so we've had multiple Geard and we've had people come to relationship with Christ. My question is I would love some of my questions Lubben answered but on the other hand I love to up to the star and just connect and talk with Trump. And have experience in the area especially with team building that they would getting ready to go into and start having the to give them that and pass this test done throughout the ministry. Thank you for that idea of not only the passion for having me of. But also right so that they can all take the spiritual gifts and pass on serving. So is there a way that I can come today. Are I'm excited about 2014. It has been a blessing to me really. And I've seeing from this system my Chertsey they are excited.
[01:04:46] It's not many of us were put into action and we are seeing new people come every week and we see a repeat that those who are pretty visible within. And that's exciting for ministry. I have about 20 active members that's awesome. Hey I don't know. There are a lot more people right now in the Kulgera than there were when we were having the technical difficulties. Believe it or not there's more people on these calls at the end original. Just send us an e-mail. We have got a team member now Lianna who's also on staff. They star she she kind of plays two roles for organizations she can get that set up and the cool thing for you is all you got to do is get in the car and point it no way. NORRIS About 40 minutes. So which a lot of these guys get to get on a plane to get up there. But if you're in Birmingham is right up the road from me and Coleman you know. So yeah definitely. I really want to double. I'm not intimidated by church of the highlands of Virginia large because I'm a city where there's over half of New England and the metropolitan area. I know we can impact a large segment that has not been tapped into thus far. Give me more clarity on the system and I'll bring in our minister. I want to thank you all for sharing this with us for sure. Thank you so much Reginald. OK let's jump to the last question here Jerry. I'm not sure what this name is Rod Stutzman I'm Castrum prostacyclin the church in Prussia Washington. And my question is concerning this.
[01:06:33] We've been trying to get some traction started with 20 foot level and we're at the point where we've done the module zero had all of the committee meetings and now working with a guy who's trying to help me administrate I've discovered that I am not an administrator but I am a pastor heart and gut. I think it was revision. I planted this church number of years ago. But we've had a revision went through a church split into a theological change that split the church and revisioning now around. Connection connecting people to Jesus connecting to one another in their vision and their call in their life. With that process and Jerry's teaching on the 27 we're going to have our vision with our large group. Watch the videos. How much of that do I allow the people to really I mean do I just let them tear apart the vision like give. You know I've been preaching vision connection connecting Jesus connection. How much to the leadership people. I mean you're saying right. I think I'm hearing your question and my answer would be that you know leadership is very nuanced. And so you know one leader said that you know leading people is like getting people to go where you want them to go. Wyomissing the question he wanted to get there. So so you know for me there are times I do have a just a blank sheet of paper. And you know I've been leading my people for so long I have a lot of confidence that I can rein things in if it gets out of control.
[01:08:26] And so if I've got a blank sheet I just go in with a blank sheet but sometimes I don't. I've got an agenda of what I might do is have a meeting before the meeting and just talk to a few key voices and just kind of move the ball forward with them. I don't sit them down and say hey we're going to have a fake meeting and we're going to make it. And that's not what I do. But I say hey I want to have conversation from every voice. But here's where I really think we're headed. What do you think. And maybe he moves me 10 percent. That key leader. But at the end of the day I'm still 90 percent of where I wanted to go. Then we go into that meeting and you know he champions that cause just naturally because he's had a conversation with me and then maybe we move another 10 percent. I'm still 80 percent where I talk and I'm probably better off with the other 20 percent you know. Just never forget you're the team leader for a reason. You're the set and anointed man for that place. So you know I I do let people you know bring their ideas but for the most part you know you're on the call with 24 to the wall right now they're there in an office meeting doing another job. They're driving a forklift or they're teaching a class somewhere. You're the man you're doing this 24/7 you live sleep drink eat it. Think about it all the time. So you're going to be right.
[01:09:46] Most of the time so you definitely want to go in there with your ideas on that front. That's kind of where my take was. I was just wanting to make sure I'm not being a control freak. I definitely have a picture of where I want to go and where we're headed to. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah that's good for my life has the rhythm that you talked about earlier to get us there. I don't crash and burn before I die. Before we get there. So that's it did for you. You're I'm I'm a recovery control freak and so right it gets you a good book for you. In fact where I got that phrase the Baroness of busyness. Oh goodness. What's the guy's name. Crap I'm sorry. I just it them you'll remember the other guy's name and I remembered curly haired Mike. His name is Mike McDermott Brinda. His name is Mike McDermott and he's not in Boston. I'm sorry he's in Baltimore so I struck out with Brennan. Now you remember the other guy's name. I probably will I got clean back a little space in my brain. Remember him. Hey. So let me. Thanks so much for the question right. And let me make while closing this out you may be that the train will come back the station the old save button doesn't work as well in the 40s as it did in the 30s. Hey I don't want to say hey sorry for the snafu in the middle of it all. We will clean that up for the podcast.
[01:11:20] I always get Jerry on here and I ask him questions in the beginning so that he can do a little bit of teaching because we just don't have a place where we're capturing that information right now. And as usual I just love what you have to say Jerry and I think that part of this training and the podcast that will ensue is huge for it. We'll figure out we have way more questions today than we normally do and only about half as many people. With all that being said thank you for being with us Pastor. We know that there's a ton of other things you could be doing with this hour in 10 minutes. Thanks so much for being with us. Thanks for what you're doing in your communities reaching people who are far from God but right outside the doors of your church if there's anything we can do to serve you all you gotta do is hit the reply button on any of those e-mails we send you. We'll be glad to do that. Jerry thanks so much for being with us. You got any parting shots are we good. The only thing I would say is I want to give you guys found the bill ordering your private world. I feel so much both. Great book. Gordon MacDonald. That is so great. Full control freak so. Yeah. I only thing I would say inclosing is just to remind you guys you're not in this alone. My church my leadership team my church of over 40 45 100 people. We pray for you. We feel like we're in a network. We're in a partnership. We're family and we're praying for you pastors all the time. So you're not alone.
[01:12:41] Thanks so much for being with us. If you're listening on the podcast at some point in the future check us out at 24 trial too for trial dot com. Everything you need to know will be right there on that page. But until the next podcast or call we'll catch up with you then. Thanks for being with us.