24toDouble Members Live Q&A – August 2018

24toDouble Members Questions asked about the Pastor's Breakfast and More:

  • How in the world do you get people to come to church first and then get involved in all the community events after church?
  • Who does Jerry see as leaders and mentors?
  • Who should I involve in the 24toDouble process?
  • How do you structure the leadership in Small Groups for accountability?
  • How important is it if you don’t get the amount of people involved small groups as your first planned.
  • How does my staff, the board, and all of the teams work together in 24toDouble?
  • What time do you do the Pastor’s Breakfast so it isn’t too early to prevent people from coming?
  • What do you do for children during the Pastor’s Breakfast?
  • Do you give the Gifts and Passions Profile every time you have the Pastor’s Breakfast?
  • What kind of food do you provide at the Pastor’s Breakfast?
  • How do you transition people into serving after the Pastor’s Breakfast?

 

Transcript +

[00:00:00] You're listening to the 24toDouble podcast the Internet's most passionate church growth podcast. And now here's your host Richard Chancy. Hey Pastor sorry about that. This is our first shot. I've had to be on the road today heading down to where my dad is in hospital. And so Jessica my trusty sidekick is run in the back part of the Q and A today. This is our first go at that. We've trained a little bit on it but we're still working out some of the kinks so I apologize for that and I appreciate the grace if you have questions. Go ahead get store fix on your phone that will get in the queue and I'm going to grant Jerry a wish today and wishes. This is not really wasted but I'm going to do very little commenting today because I'm on the road and I don't want you to hear road noise. So with that being said. Jerry thanks so much for taking the time to do it again. You know you want to dive into this time of year is a scramble and just talk out. How you deal with the scramble of news back here and we're trying to get new people into the church and there's a big event coming up in the future. There should be. So why don't you dive into that and then we'll take it from there and start answering some questions. Yes I sure will spend only Possum's isn't it is right now. And I'd like to I'd like to do one thing to kick off.

[00:01:30] You know you guys know that Richard has a real passion for pastors and a really good look at what ministries like the struggle that pastors are in the high burnout rate. So many other challenges. He really has a passion to serve ministers and that's why does what he does but that puts him in a place of having a unique opportunity. Richard's dad is really in need of a touch from the hand of God. And Richard is one of the people who could have a lot of preachers prank his dad all at one time. And I think because of his investment in all of us let's listen best for a minute a prayer and this our faith into Richard's dad and his family. So I'll just leave that prayer you guys and ladies just join me if you had less. You guys all understand the prayer of agreement. Let's do that right now for Richard said. So Father we take this moment and we are so so thankful for Richard's heart for these pastors and for the cause of the church in America and around the world. And we just lift up his dad right now and we're praying for you to touch him like only you can. God we praise you that Richard is not seeking a healing. He's seeking the healer. He's just getting close to you God in your words that you surround yourself with miraculous life like a garment. And so I pray that he would just wrap Richard's family in a garment of your presence and a light of healing. And I pray that true Mercy true Grace true Faber from the throne room explodes into Richard's family. His father in that hospital room.

[00:03:19] Richard is he so busy he has so many things to do even. God bless him with some focus and with some personal Sabbath time to be able to deal with this issue in his faith. And all together we all come into agreement and we say Amen. So be it in the name of Jesus. Amen. Thanks to guys that means a lot to me. We love it man. Don't let your dad know and your and your mom and everybody that we're praying. So I'm going to take off guys and talk a little bit about where you are right now. A lot of people elbow space in your community. You've got teachers ball teams. Everything is kicking off right now. You don't need to take a step back and let them have that. You need to step up and be very ferocious for what is important in your career in your community. What is it that you're doing right now. We're doing our full 21 days of prayer at based arm. And so we are building up social media with it. We're talking about it. We're getting word out there. Our big fall series is right around the corner so we're working really hard with that. We'll be doing a game day series where it's a simple home week series but on day one week one Easter Sunday everybody comes to church where's a favorite Jersey whatever that is college football baseball whatever. It's JERSEY day week two is team day. So we are inviting all the peeps. This is crazy.

[00:04:52] Every team we can get a hold of in our community football team baseball basketball team cheerleading squad band everybody. And we're having a battle of the bands in the parking lot. So the drum lines are the opposing bands will be battling it out Sunday that that second Sunday of the series the third Sunday is tailgate Sunday and so we'll have food trucks all around in the different ministries we'll have will be tailgating lunch with a college football game and so we know the worship minister who is roasting a pig like a whole pig you know that kind of thing will be going on and horse food trucks will feed everyone. And then the last day is the Iron Bowl challenge if you know anything about Alabama you like Alabama or Auburn. And that's called the Iron Bowl. It's the last day people that came for food ministry and you know will award a champion at the Albert people or the Alabama people be up the most. So you know that's something you've got to figure out what your communities include. And Alabama is into college football and so we're trying to get to where they are and not give up any grounds or all view that this is going on. We are not relenting. We're going to give our business is more important than everybody else's business. Our business is leading people toward eternal decisions. So so yeah thanks for your question. We are just passionately you know going after what we do and not giving up any space in the calendar.

[00:06:24] People so I think back to what you've been taken out of if you don't live in a state that has trade national championships between two things I think there's still something you can take from that some way to be able to leverage an idea like that especially for this season when more people were coming back. Hey Jessica a lot of we don't have and start answering some questions faster. If you are new to us you don't do it start saying you're going to be prompted when it's your turn. It will give you a little pop so it's your turn to ask the question. All we ask is that you give us your first name and your church name. And then jump in and ask a question and we'll take as many as we can in the time that we have here. So let's why don't we go and do that now. Jessica pastor. Hi my name is Linda. And my husband's name is Emmett and we pastor Church in New Jersey. I read or heard in your program that for October 30 first we traditionally call it our Hallelujah night that you all were instead of doing it the Saturday before or the Saturday after that you actually did it on Sunday morning. And so I want to know how in the world did you get the people to come to church first before they felt before they got involved in all of the activities of that special community event. Yeah. Thanks for that question. And here's the basic premise behind what I'm saying. We have done a lot of activities on Saturday night Friday night whatever and had made gigantic crowds of people you know just a year away. You give away candy and rides carnival type atmosphere then you know it's going to be huge.

[00:08:26] But what we really believe is that you know we believe that our worship experience that seven is about a 75 minute worship experience is dynamic and life changing and so we want to build special events around that experience. We don't want people to come in a big event. Now we may have a lot of special events that are just to nurture our people so to grow and build disciples out of are already attending people who want to reach new people. We really want to expose them to who we are and who we are is not how we carnival or something like that. That's something we do. We don't want you to come on the grounds. Maybe you don't like the rights. Maybe you don't like the atmosphere and you never come again. Well that's not even who we are who we are. Is that amazing. 75 minute worship experience where we know you're going to love it. So we don't want to sell you on something that we can't replicate. Week after week after week and we certainly don't want to come to a special event and not like it when maybe you would have loved just our weekend service. So we try and you can't always be this way but as often as possible we try to make our special events revolve around a summer. So you know what we do. And actually we're not doing it each year and we kind of stick to the same script all the time but what we have done with regards to the Halloween carnival type thing is hold our Halloween carnival as a fall thing with festival on Sunday morning.

[00:10:05] Much like I just talked about the tailgating thing. So it's just it's kind of always happening all morning because we have three morning services. So different crowds are filtering coming in and out and all that kind of stuff but you get your ticket everything's free. But you have to have a ticket to take it to get in to that section of the property. So you get that ticketing worship. It's just really simple you know you would keep it to worship God out and inside to worship God interest tickets. And then gets you into the area and you know it just kind of makes sure people don't show up for Carnival that they come and experience our our worship. Now we're not legalistic about that. And when these guys get to go to church before we will let you do anything else. I know I'll tell my people if somebody shows up and they look like they didn't know that there was a church service. I mean that's fine. But as a rule we want to try to push those people into a worship experience so that they get a good picture of who we are. Thank you. You answered my question. I appreciate it. Yeah thanks for calling hey again to get Mickey Istar sticks. We've got a few less people here today than we normally do so and I don't think there's anybody else in the queue right now. From what Jessica is me. Let me let me ask you this because I think this is back to school term a year is a good term you know your kids are going back to school to learn.

[00:11:38] And I think it's a good time to really focus on hey what am I. My educating myself because one of the things you always say and I think this is such a huge point. I used this phrase all the time is your church's perfectly designed to be the size that it is right now. What I'm realizing and as a business leader as a ministry later my ministry is designed to be the side that it is right now based on who I am and if and if it's going to go to another level then I've got to go to another level. What are you doing right now. What do you do to invest in yourself. Are you learn from that kind of thing. Well it really is people. I mean that that's where the is so I want two leaders who are you know what I would call a lot of momentum or you know he just got a similar church or ministry to mine and so we could just bounce ideas off each other. I also want an up blind mentor so that's some that you know has experience has built with ministry a scale that I have not. And you know honestly a lot of mentors I can't be a face to face with. And so I have to pick up their books and I can interact with people. You know I think about being you know a guy who spent 20 years learning a particular discipline and then he spent a year writing it all down in a book of 21 years of effort. And you can have it for 21 dollars. So why would you buy that guy's book.

[00:13:09] Why wouldn't you read that book and so I do a lot of that at this forum because I when my church was at 200 then I think you'll find a pastor in a church of four or 500 but you know where we are today so that were difficult to go out and get space with a 10000 member church pastor. So I will make some of those connections. And I do have some of those mentors but large that I've got to pick up books and read and learn. John Maxwell says you know the difference in where you are today and where you're going to be in five years is the books you read the people who meet and spend time with you. Not me but books you read the people you spend time with. So that's it. It's really for me it's getting people who I can sharpen myself and learn from. And the books I can read are you know and all these people church people are you are you hanging out with these people too. Yeah I mean I'm one of my greatest mentors. You know what's great. Yesterday yesterday I spent considerable time with with with a guy who is probably 15 hundred employees and you know we just we've grown and big cringe for a long time and so much how he runs his business and how I try to lead people intersect in so many ways. I'll just take a moment to tell pastors this the loneliest people that you will meet are the most successful people you'll meet. That is an absolute fact. I don't care where you live.

[00:14:42] It's a fact because successful people intimidate others and so they don't get invited to dinner. They don't get invited to the Oscars and a lot of times if they are invited it's not a real friendship invited so I need something from you invite. And I found that the easiest friends for me to make have been the business owners CEOs big time leaders that a lot of other people shy away from. I had to you know I grew up in a white collar family you know kind of lower middle class income and I had to coach myself up and remind myself that you know this is that guy even though you know he he may run 300 million dollars to this company this year. I'm a smartish him and you know I just sort of connecting and talking with those guys. And they want someone to bounce things off of. They want to have a pastor and a friend. And then here's the other part you know they will reciprocate reciprocate and allow me to share what's on my heart and usually what's on my heart has to do with the church. And oftentimes they have the capacity to be very generous to help me make the next step in my journey. And so yeah I think it's probably you know when you talk about low hanging fruit we talk about that 24/7. Some of the low hanging fruit it's kind of easy to get started with. I think that's a low hanging area in almost every ministry by the way they only have to be a part of your church. I remember years ago one time we had a local politician who was taking so much heat in the community.

[00:16:17] And I had only met him once to shook his hand. He was a member of First Baptist Church in our city in Spain. We have been there for ever and ever and I just saw all the heat he was taking and I just sent him a note I looked up his his address and I sent him a handwritten note tell him that I really believed in him and I wouldn't know I was behind him that God loves this. He's only to Africa next month. That's a decade ago. That guy has joined my church in my small group. You know we hang out together he's a state senator now. He's just really grown. You know just that little for the state of encouragement to him just really spoke to his heart. And you know I think I think a lot of us are or shy about stepping out and interacting with those people from outside of our circle of religious church types circle you know what's funny about Nigeria reminds me of a story that regarding the youth pastor at my church he had got to be friends with the guy through some other friends and they hung out a lot and they were you know hanging out for about six months and the guy finally came to him and said Hey are we playing again. Yeah. And he said how can we never her body in a church. She talked about it all the time and you never invite me and it in general for me and it has to be a stagnant people.

[00:17:46] You're not you're not putting in a mission to build a relationship with him and invite him into what you're doing. And I think you're right. I think the people that are probably the highest profile most successful people in your past in your city pastor out and just have somebody they could talking to you know and even if they're not bullied because I think sometimes people that aren't believers have a different perspective on why it is that we are not being as effective as we think. And if you could hurt him with an unbeliever it would change your sermons for ever because you don't even know about it because you make so many assumptions when you're preaching your. So many things about what people know about the Bible and the old rugged cross and the blood of Jesus and all the phrases in our songs and our sermons that completely make no sense to unbelievers. And so that's another place to benefit yourself is to find the unbeliever and hang out with them. Don't try to just do a hardcore preaching and just just get to know you just by exposure Yeah that's huge. I think we've got somebody else in the queue now jeering and I just say this pastor finished enough that what Jerry just said. It's Thursday afternoon. But by the end of day on Monday it reach out to somebody you can't and you can't determine whether or not they're going to respond or reach out to somebody in your community or in your church that you can just go out and build a relationship with them and they do get a different perspective on your church. Hey Jessica why don't you go ahead and queue. I think it's actually up next. Hello can you.

[00:19:38] Oh yes I can hear. This has gone from Fellowship Bible Church in north Idaho. And we are just in the very infancy of checking out 24 to double. We've had a meeting with all of our leadership team and we're on board and we all want to move forward. And my question is as we do that and as we sign up and the next step for us would be to involve. I'm not quite sure how big a group were to involve involved which is with the leaders or should involve more people more of the ministry leaders. Obviously the first module we start looking at vision and that kind of thing and we're just trying to figure out what our next step is how big is your church right now. On a Sunday movie around about 70 something pretty small. So what. Yeah what I would do then is I would make it a big church event. It's a whole church initiative and I would invite everybody you know just tell them what we're doing. You know we are we're reaching our city. You know we. And if you if you've seen any of the initial videos the module 0 or the video we may just Pacella the board on it. You've heard some statistics that you can use that just say really that the church world in general is really in crisis in America. And you know I'd start preaching about that and I would start challenging the entire church to get on board with this this new initiative to change the community. We've had some guys just call it 24 double.

[00:21:15] It's easy to remember we're going to double our church's ministry effectiveness and reach in 24 months. Some have called them team 24. You know we were the guys and some guys make up another name because preachers tend to want to make up names. But you know whatever wherever it is get as many people are involved as you can at a church of that size I might turn my first Wednesday not a month into that first Sunday night or something like that just make it easy for people to get on board with it you don't want to you know add another night to their schedule or you know requiring a lot more out of them because the JRD those nights are already spoken for. That's perfect because that's the other part was how do we engage the conversation so you sir answered both questions at once. Yeah. Here's something out here. And I said you Don and everybody listening. Pastors are notorious for just searching and working so hard on disarmament sermon material. But as you're going to 24 to double this whole thing is really about Jesus. I mean it really is. We give so many examples of how Jesus and how the spirit of Jesus has inspired every one of these kingdoms. You know the first impressions team is inspired by the story the prodigal son and so on and so on. What I would say used those ideas those philosophies were not statistics that you were taught in Scripture. Use that as your sermon like preach in conjunction with what this program is laying out for you. So it makes it easier. It also keeps your church in unity.

[00:22:54] So that's another thing I would say today. Great thank you very much. Yeah thanks Don. Thanks Don. Again it's if you want to get into it Star six. Hey gearing up for what Don said about there. One of the observations that I've had now. So we've been doing this six years and we're here right. We're rounding into or are moving in about 3000 searching going to participate in 2014. And one of the most common things that I hear as a leader but not a church leader getting over the hump of thinking that we have it all figured out. We've got a structure and we have a real mess. But moving past it and getting created on how to do this and then and and what I've seen you guys do so well and Daystar is you know you avoid taking tanks and running with them meaning that it's about Jesus and helping people move to the personal Mashadi that God told to talk talking about how how do you reject the urge to just grab it and run away because I know that that party your hardwiring and how do you get the people I guess. Good question. Yeah I really would say it starts with empowering leaders. You know there's so many people who don't feel like they can lead because let's just say there they are. Administrator by nature they have to do with or at makeshift.

[00:24:22] And so you know they feel like I'm not a great leader because I'm not spiritual in that I'm not as spiritual as all these other people who say God told me this or you know there's all it with every gift that that we outlined in the functional gifts which is the backbone of this 20 put together system with every gift. There is a weakness and the enemy worked really hard to highlight that weakness and so you got. But just think about this pastors all throughout your congregation you have scores of people who are very gifted and who God loves very much. But but the devil is convince them that they can't serve because of one thing or another. And so what the teaching that we offer here on spiritual gifts really empowers people and you go and tell him that you know we we don't expect you to be a well rounded person. You know that's a that's that's kind of a in my mind the kind of of this idea of God that make people well rounded. You know he he makes you extremely prophetic or extremely merciful or extremely administrated but he didn't make most people well rounded. We're going to we're going to empower you to use your gifts the way you're called to do. And when I personally really believe in it then yeah I don't have any problem if I get pissed at the person to hand them a ministry positions. I spoke to a business owner last night who is not a member of my church. He is a member but not a member of my staff and just literally handed over the leadership of the building project of a new multimillion dollar campus that we're putting up in Huntsville and he's going to leave that thing because frankly he's better at it than I am. It's my it's my life it's my livelihood it's my passion it's my life's calling.

[00:26:10] None of that is true for him but he's better at it than I am. And if I don't let him have it the cause of Christ is going to suffer the districts will suffer. And I just have to make that choice. You know it's not about me it's it's about doing the very best we can and God will not give all the gifts to one person. He intentionally makes you weak in some area so that you need other people. I'm convinced of that. God does not make well-rounded people he makes you strong in one area and weaken another so that you need the other person because he lives for the buyer to come together. Unity until you're doing it on your own or if you're attracting people around you who just always make you comfortable all the time you're probably deficient in some ministry area because you know you like me. I'm an administrative person. I just attracted all that great with good staff members and that creates a lot of firepower and a lot of hustle and a lot of chiefs but not a lot of mercy. You know not a lot of spirituality sometimes you know. So I've had to learn to pull those other people in and value their gifts. It's not just that I want them to serve me because I don't have enough time to do it myself or I don't want to do it myself. Genuinely that I'm going to give them something that they could do better than I could. And I went out once I learned that it really just liberated me to do it. What motivated me to do it. That's awesome.

[00:27:35] Good stuff. OK. We've got a few people in the queue now just go ones you see the next one up. And I apologize for the delay in between these because Justin can only hit the button when I say it and it takes a few seconds. Say hi it's his friend from Faith Mission Church in Boston. I am a Brenda B. ENTJ oh god yes. Yes I am. I am calling because in 2019 my plan is to launch the small groups you know the life type organizational structure and what I want. So I've looked at modules 12 I think it is and also module 23 the two that primarily deal with this and in 23 you say that you're going to address more of the you know how to structure it. You know I guess like the hierarchy of you know the leadership that you would need so that proper accountability can happen. And yet I have not seen any of that in any of the other modules. Do you address some of the way you're talking about the hierarchy of small groups. Yeah when it when it comes to actually implementing it it seems like you were saying that you would describe in more detail the strategy of how to roll something like that out and we could use some help with that. OK. So the hierarchy of small groups is that you know you first of all you have to determine that you are a small groups church not a church that has a small group ministry. So. So ultimately the leader of small groups has to be the senior pastor.

[00:29:39] Now that does not mean that he or she literally administrates and coaches and does all the training. But for instance you know we have about a story of about 80 percent of our Sunday Morning attendance in small groups. Some point through the week. And so I'm constantly talking about it this fall I will be in order different small groups which start in about two weeks on our semester calendar. So I'm talking about it a lot. So so I'm kind of the champion you know senior pastor the champion of it. Then there needs to be a real director for us. Now we have a small group Pastor full time but there's got to be a champion that's a volunteer who used to be a volunteer for us years to get. So there's there's got to be a champion and then there should be coaches. And so each eat each small group leader that would have you know from anywhere from 6 to 10 or 12 people in their small group. Each leader has a coach that he or she conducted. And get advice from him that coaches of course volunteer and in the coach you know would be talking and getting advice from the from the small groups pastor or leader whomever that is in the small church the senior pastor might be that leader. And so we do the hierarchy that way and so our coach will visit every small group at least once a semester that is under him. He'll make sure to go around and see those. And you know when we first started we didn't have the coaches. We just had a hand by out about 20 small groups.

[00:31:20] And so this small group director she traveled to all those small groups. But that's the way the hierarchy is laid out once a semester we roll out. We promote small groups sign up I'm sorry leader applications first. First we roll out leader applications and then we put all those leaders in some training to show them how to do a small group and give us some requirements and then we help them we determine what they're going to what they're going to lead. We have a free market group and so what that means is we don't tell you what you have to small group could be on the Book of Acts. Or it could be golf. You know we but it has to involve either Bible study or prayer or you know some kind of a worship experience of some kind along with whatever activities you do. So then after we've trained you up then we roll out the small group launch day and so we've got to work with all the small groups listed and people sign up and then we roll for an entire semester. We have three semesters a year. So we rolled for an entire semester and do that whole thing again in the next semester. Beaupre that is. That is helpful. Now we have done some small group activities. We have done some studies.

[00:32:50] In other words like you know 40 days of purpose or 40 days in the world or something like that which lends itself to small group type of setting and what we have done in the past is that we've we've always kept it you know in the church during the Sunday school our type of thing. And it has always gotten. And and also we would follow up and continue the lessons during our Wednesday evening bible studies. We've always gotten a surge of attendance during that time but I find that those programs last about six to eight weeks or so. But even though there is more material and the group may be excited to go on for another few weeks beyond the eight weeks or so the attendance drops off precipitously after eight weeks. So I am wondering if that if I could should leave that as fast as our folks being really just having a tolerance for about six to eight weeks and divide up our semesters that way versus you know the 12 week semester. Like you guys have all recommended. What would you say. Well you could. You know you could do that. Make it more of an eight week type thing if you want to. I think people like change and they don't. One of the problems with the Sunday school approach is that you know kind of once you join a Sunday school class they want to be in that same class forever and ever and ever and you know people like variety. They like to change. So if you wanted to change it more often I think you know I think you could tinker around with that of course. But you know to really bring that to really roll it out and get the maximum focus I would I would say for us doing that series times a year is it as often as we want to do it because you know that's that's a lot.

[00:34:56] And we've got Rally Day is when we rolled it out. So people are outside they get. Some of them have tents set up at local tables sign up things that get come over here and play corn hole or you know come over here and get a soda and get all these different kind of like a trade show. You know you can do a trade show. And so it really makes everyone want to be a part of it and signed up in a group. And so I think we find it really difficult to duplicate that over and over again. Thank you. How important is it to you. You said that you had like 80 percent of your congregation participating. What if you starting you'd do a task so to speak some kind of favor to see how many people would participate and you'd get a much lower percentage. Let's say you get 20 or 30 percent. Are those indicators for instance that you are not ready yet to start or is there any. Well not but we did. We did group in the church. Life's like you are and our numbers were significantly lower because we learned that small groups outside the church building are just entirely different than small groups on side. And we still allow group leaders to host a few events at the church building. But by and large we want people to be away from there. People tend to open up more because it's not a classroom setting. It's sitting around a living room or a coffee shop and people are much more open. They talk more honestly and openly.

[00:36:49] It's a lot easier to get visitors who don't go to church to come to a small group that is to get them in the church. I mean I've got I can't tell you how many people are in our church today that first came to my small group. In fact one of my staff members came to a small group that we Eiseley meeting in a conference room at a bank. That's where our small group was. And that's where I met him and he came to the church became an elder and eventually on staff now it's just much more redemptive in my experience and I think it's not just our experience but data would prove it that if you can get it off site and give people the freedom and flexibility to do it literally they start small groups are literally seven days a week day and night. And so there's always a place and a time for you to be in a small group and I think that's one of the big reasons why we have big numbers. Great. Thank you. I'll see the questions from Max. Thanks for making me. Hey Gary before we move on to the next question that I hate you just take on this question how what I've seen with churches is they spend a lot of time focused on environment and curriculum and not enough and there are what it calls the tolerance. Like how do you get them from the Pew or from the yes from the pews to the circle. And I think it you did well. Yeah. So we don't first of all pastors we don't allow student we do not announce anything. Here's the point.

[00:38:27] If it's worth doing if we're going to do something then it's biblical. All right. So if it's biblical I can preach it if I can't preach it like he's been doing it day I can't preach a Donat sale. So I'm not going to announce a Belnap so now if the boys brigade stands up and sells donuts. Maybe that'll happen I don't know. But I'm not announcing that I'm going to say my pope it's time to preach and so I don't get up on a Sunday and say hey you need to be in a small group but have more small groups than last year. Hey we really need some people to leave small groups these guys have signed on. I get up and if that's the Sunday I preach about that I preach about the groups that Jesus had and I preach about that for me and he tore the roof off the place lowered demand. I preach about friendships and groups and leadership and you know God's destiny for your life. And so instead of a you know 30 second announcement a 45 second announcement for small groups. I get about 30 minute 45 minute sermons for small groups and then we release. And when you get out the door you know there's you know 50 tables. We get to walk around a small group here and we don't say hey here's a program that we offer. We say hey if you're a new testament believer you go to the temple courts which means corporate worship and you go house to house over and over again the book of Acts. That's all they did.

[00:39:53] They gathered corporately and they went house to house and saw that they were not just a church. You already had done half of what you're here corporately and then walk out the door now we're going to go house to house. So we don't we don't give in and passes. Ninety nine percent of pastors to do what I'm talking about. You need to go back and cancel about 50 things you're doing right now because your people can't tell what's most important to you. So we only do four things that they store. That is it. We can worship small groups growth track and dream team. So you know you show up and you work and worship on the weekends. You go to the pastors meal and you get in the growth trying to learn how to become a member and your spiritual gifts find out what you're going to serve. I asked number three the circle of the Dream Team. You started weekly or monthly. How was your rotation is. And then fourthly you get a small group and that is it. We don't do anything but those four things. And if somebody says hey I have a women's conference I say OK tell me which one of these four that's going to stir. Are you going to convince me to have a women's conference on Sunday morning during that worship. No. Are you going to have a women's conference and sign up. You know 300 women into small groups. OK. We have a women's conference because it feeds small groups we are not doing anything.

[00:41:15] Well there's a church down the street that had a wild game feast and they had 300 let's do that. No we don't do it because someone else does it. Now if you can sign up you know 100 men into a small group into small groups because you had a wild game. All right. I'm fine with that. But we only do four things. And if you're doing 25 things which is what most churches are doing you people can't figure out what's most important and when you only do four things it's really easy to get people to do the four things or three things are fine I think whatever it is it just works better does make sense. That makes sense for every organization. And that is a good man. Hey Jessica why don't you go and cure something it's got to get you more Jerry. And we'll jump in with us. Hi this is Pastor David Westmont Christian Church in Lubbock Texas Hi David. I had a question about kind of structure stuff at our church where a congregation really led polity church which has its pluses and minuses like any polity. I'm sure right now we're currently working in a structure that has a board and elders in the church office staffs and all of our ministry is connected with our board positions. I'm hoping through this process of the 24 to Well we're about a little less than halfway through. We've got about four of the teams in place right now. I'm hoping to move our ministry and those ministry teams off the board so that there's more flexibility within those than there is with our board positions.

[00:42:55] And so I'm looking at kind of these groups the ministry teams the board our elders and our church staff and I'm kind of having trouble seeing how they can all relate together and work together. I don't know if you had any thoughts on that or if you had any suggestion about how different authoritative pieces of the structure can put together that is. David it sounds like we need to sit down and talk for about an hour. But but I would say just on a philosophical high level is you. You know you do not want to tear down the existing structure and sort of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. So you want to massage the system that you have the structure that you have and work it into the 24 to level structure so that you know different people are empowered. The thing about 24 is it absolutely has to be a priority. You know it can't be that our our staff is running a little program over here. But our elders and deacons. It has to be a top down approach. It has to be authoritative and you have to restructure. I don't care if you restructure 24 to able to see your model or restructure your model at the 24th level. They can't peacefully coexist you have to put them together so that this is who we are and this is what we do. This is not a two year program and we're going to see that helps us in some ways and then we'll stick to what we're doing. You know if it's that rigid 24 that may not be for you. It's got to be something that you can merge these things together and there can be some compromises.

[00:44:40] You know that's something Richard and I talk about all the time is that leaders have to lead. And as as a leader they've got to of course make those tough calls about how we're going to massage this or that and I'm and I'll be bold you know in telling you my opinion if you're you know messing with my program and changing it a little bit I'll tell you why it is the way it is. But at the end of the day you know you've got to make it work in your context. But I would say this you just have to be unified around a new approach to reach people that don't really don't know if that helps you at all. DAVID That's sort of an overarching answer to your question. Yeah I think I think it does a little bit for the most part my core leadership I think is on board with trying to make the structure of our church fit with the 24 year old program because what we're currently doing just has not been working at all. You know I think from my hand it's just as the head leader of this congregation is just trying to figure out I haven't wrapped it all up in my mind so I'm having trouble teaching and expressing to them how you know providing vision for how the kind of structure and polity of our church can can fit within the system. So I think that's the struggle I'm having because I can't make sense of it myself. I'm having a hard time leading them into it.

[00:45:55] So David are you able I don't know what what level you body into but are you able to go ahead and get good ahead of them. You can listen to the three E's it with fibre. Yeah yeah. I've gone ahead. I'm about I don't know four or five months training ahead of the what we're doing with our group so yes you ought to be able to see where it's going and maybe make some suggestions about how this how this fits with your existing structure. And you know just trust yourself because you if you've got the whole system and you're out ahead of you at least most of the first year you've got a good picture of it and you knew of course that the best picture of your church they are in love. So you're probably the most capable person on planet Earth to figure that out. Because you know both the 2014 system and you know your church. So you have to kind of trust yourself to make those tough calls. OK. That is very helpful in just that affirmation is helpful as well. Thank you for that. Yeah. Thanks for calling David. The only thing I would add is Jerry and it's and John natual earlier and I think got a lot of the same response to John Michael a while ago. And one thing he does that makes all the sense in the world is he slows and some nails it takes time to fake and make you feel like you're doing that. But I would encourage you to get that on your calendar every week. You just lie down and figure out how these pieces fit together. Great great book thinking for a change.

[00:47:34] I'm sure you could read that thinking for change really tells you how to strategize your week so that you've got actual thinking time on your calendar. It's great. Awesome. Thank you all very much. Yeah thank you. Jessica why don't you cue the day the last one up here for us this is Phil Harris. I'm in Bend Oregon in a couple of questions. Hey thanks for taking my call. Pastor Jerry. My first question was what on your pastor's breakfast. What time do you do that. So it's not too early to prohibit people with families coming. Phil do you have yeah. Tell me about your service time right now. We move we have a lot of things going on but we have a worship practice at 8:00 but our service starts at 10:00 and then typically we have prayer that starts at 9:00p.m. which I can have other people leave that. So that's what we do and then we started 10 OK. So you're just overarching reality your church will grow by newcomers not by the existing members. So right. This tweet this this past year breakfast is about those newcomers and the other things about existing members. You know the prayer thing and the worship practice and all that kind of thing. So I would I would say that that's got to be priority. So if we were having a 10 o'clock worship experience then I would probably just ask for a 9:00 pastor's meal passes breakfast. And you know just even if you're not there the whole time you know you could get it kicked off and get it started well and some other team members could finish it out.

[00:49:28] OK. And then just have them come in you know after the worship has already started. I'm sorry the service started at 10:00. What did you hear. It sounded like your pastor's breakfasts were a little bit longer than an hour though. Well you know why you know why. Because we put it in alignment with our worship service with dual worship services to make it easy for people to remember not get all these weird you know what time is this. But when you only have one service one hour he has plenty of time. So yeah you could absolutely wrap this thing up in about 45 minutes. Have a little fellowship time ease them toward the auditorium and they only have a church with hear him. OK. You have got to sharpen up my game on that one. Secondly what do you do for kids during those meetings. We have a child care person there you know either just going he's one of the nurseries. And if you're paying people you know you pay someone or to get volunteers you have that to the volunteer list. But yeah. You can't have them distracted you know from their kids. Sure you have seen the kids and let them play. Yeah that's what we do know that every sending you give that gifts and passions gas every time you do that to the visitor. Yes right. OK. That's right. It sounded like your that pastors breakfast was kind of your your big play on retention because our retention of visitors is not very good. So I'm super excited to kind of rethink how I do that.

[00:51:18] I did coffee with the pastor for a while but I didn't promote it as well as I should have. So I'm excited about this. Is that kind of your big retention tool for that. Yeah it really is you know we didn't even know it was going to be so effective. But you know the those who go through the pastors breakfast have somewhere we don't know if I've seen the numbers lately. So the last time we ran them it's fucked up in the 90s that the likelihood of them joining the church if they go through their pastors meal is crazy. Not everyone will come to the pastor's breakfast but you know so I'm not saying we don't have a 90 percent retention rate but of the people who come to pass that breakfast. We are almost batting a thousand. Wow that's amazing. That's amazing. And then you see them these are like you guys sorry for asking these silly questions but it's important to me. Do you guys feed them like a full ride. You know eggs and baking candidate saying are you doing a muffin. We talk. You know that that really works. Anyway you want. You know we've done it in multiple ways but we we don't want them hungry so we make sure there's plenty there. But but you know we've we've we've erred on the side of a more hearty meal. But you know you know either way. Yeah. That would be kind of my default as well. They can't run as fast and they're full. So I can catch up.

[00:52:52] Some people you know people are just happier when they're full and hasn't worked for me. That's how they sold me that times are in the mountains. I said I was going how it was just to just say Hey I just you can't eat. Yes. Always remember people move towards environments where they feel accepted and away from environments where they feel rejected and by default coming into a place where you don't know anybody and they're doing the weird things that we do on Sunday morning it's going to feel like an environment where they're not. You don't make them feel like that and they will feel rejected. And that's the thing that I love about this pastor's right. This is not only are you making a point. You put your show in you get to know them and then show them how they're going to benefit from the church. You know this is just that ministry stuff that we have going on here on the program. This is what's wrong we like it and it can get a lot more of the benefit that they get out of being a regular person. So I think that's the big picture always important. Remember it sounds like you guys do a pretty good job of losing them into a place of serving pretty quickly after that. Can you kind of give me a timeline. Yes. You know within a couple of weeks after the passing of breakfast we would love for them to be serving. We have you know if you if you take the gift and passions inventories you know we're going to we're going to pass that information along to people of yours.

[00:54:31] And you said you're passionate about children's ministry. They're going to call you and they're going to connect with you and they're going to go ahead and you know tell you this is near you can serve and help us. So a lot of a lot of those guys will just go right ahead and jump on board. Right. No that's really good. That's really good. Can I ask you one. I don't want to monopolize all your time. But one other question you were just talking about and I was listening on a long drive last night too. But you talked about the four things that you guys do as a church. And you know you're small groups et cetera. It sounds like you know outreach is kind of a big one for us trying to reach our city. And so you know there's a lot of serving opportunities and things that we we try to focus on it. It sounds like from what I'm gathering is that for you the outreach looks like more word of mouth by the church. And you're for big events. Is that am I reading that right. Well our outreach is all you know we do lots and lots of projects and they really serve. Two of those four things that are important to us. Our service projects go through our small groups.

[00:55:52] And also when we when we've got you know all these groups you know over 100 small groups and we pick a day together that we blanket the city with small service projects so that causes people want to be a part of small groups across in the valley because everybody wants to be part of something like that. And so it's a blessing that the community and the person that we reach. It's also building our small base. And then of course if the day happens to be around the time of Easter or other events then we're going to be inviting and so we conduct the kind of service both of those areas. OK. Do you build those into the small group calendar or is it just as each group feels like they want to do a project. Now we pick a day we want to have maximum impact we we coach people up on what to do social media we have a special hash tag. We have a special shirt. It's all over. And I say to the community all over social media you can't miss us. It's just everywhere. And that alone. Yeah it's all it's all you know we pick that base so that they really get a little upset. Wow. So does that come to those projects come from the church office or do you help people kind of snow when they're there. OK yeah. I mean really we really believe in our people. You know we might talk about it you know what you get a little traction. This stuff floats really like the first couple of times you do it. You might have to. You have to remind people of what the what what a service project is and what it looks like.

[00:57:42] But once you get it going and I can't wait for the next project because they've seen someone else you know get out their plate an outdoor garden for a local school that you know they weren't able to find it or you know we went to a nursing home we put a wheelchair ramp or you know by the time we do one of these you highlight three of the most heart moving projects then it peaks every one to curiosity and so they start talking about hey we want to go out in the community and do stuff too. And then my answer is Sure join a small group. That's how we do this stuff. And that arean lies the beauty of only doing four things. Pastor I have a heart for you know building wheelchair ramps. There are so many elderly people who can't get in and out. That's fantastic. You need to start a small group for community service. Well I'm not into small groups I'm sorry. We do four things here and that's. What you want to do FIPS. And so now to the one guy on building wheelchair ramps there's toile people street and they're doing you know so much more. So you know you really do have to say no to if you things so you can say yes to the very best things right. No that's good. And then one of your for with the dream team is that now that the fall volunteers you know all the volunteers we want everybody to be you know to be serving in some capacity. OK. Now I love it. Thank you very much. She made it. Yes sir. Thanks thanks. Thanks David. Hey Gary.

[00:59:21] And thank you Pastor if you are listening to us on our podcast you can check out 2014 at 24 Troutt dot com. Everything you need to know about 24 to double will be right there. If you're the first time listening with if we do a call like this every month when we jump on Ingiriya answers question. So Gerri thanks so much for being with us. UTM anything any parting shots you want to make now or just hope you pass or don't feel alone. We are praying for you here as you are on my prayer list. Every time I pray so I'm just just know that the to fund this thing by yourself caring for the yep we love you God. We're praying for you and we will see you on the next Una question. In the meantime just responding any of our e-mails. Thanks guys. Thank you for joining us for today's vodcast. For more information about 24 to double check us out double church dot com.