24toDouble Members Live Q&A – July 2018
24toDouble Members Questions asked:
- Be planning for the fall. This is a great time to be planning discipleship.
- How do you move from a staff led model to the 5-Fold Leadership model?
- How does the staff fit into the Leadership Matrix?
- Does Daystar’s staff follow the same organizational structure?
- How do you coach people to provide the 7 names and contact information for others to invite?
- What is the best way to present 24toDouble to the congregation?
- How do you prevent/handle people from entering all 4/5s on the Gifts and Passions Test?
- If you need to move someone from a position, what is the wording to use?
Hello pastors hey this is Richard Cheese who is 24 to double and I have got Pastor Jerry Lawson on the call with me once again. I was just telling him that traditionally over the last five years that we've done these calls July tends to be the month where we have the fewest number of people on the call right now. That's true but it may not be true in a few minutes so if you've got questions. This is a great mark to ask your questions and have Jerry take his time answering and diving into what's going on in your church. So if you want to get in the queue you hit store. If you're new which by the way you are. We've had a ton of people sign up in the last month which is atypical. We chose to continue to kind of put the word out about 24 to double through June and July this year. Not sure if a lot of these pastors will stick around with us long term. But the bottom line is over the last couple months I think we've maybe added 50 or 60 new churches at least that maybe also. Yeah which is crazy because my you know I just I bought into the idea that these pastors don't want to study this in the summer but maybe that was an assumption that was completely wrong. So if you got questions jumping the queue there's three people in the queue already.
[00:01:17] Hey before we get started today I wanted to let you in on some of the movings and shakings that we've got going on 24 to double Gerri and I sat down a couple of months ago and just took a step back from where we are looking at five 500 some odd churches that we partnered with and started having a conversation about OK what is the next iteration of 24 to double look like. And so we've begun to kind of develop a plan for how we're going to freshen up the content on 24 to double and some of that is going to include live teaching or teaching that has recorded that you watch for the first time and then we answer questions much like we're doing on this call. Behind that what we want to do is we know it's time to freshen up the content when the content was originally put together it was in front of a live crowd. We didn't have access to the technology that we now now have access to. And one of the things we really didn't understand that we do now which is a massive blessing is this opportunity that we have to bring training right into your church into your boardroom and you partner with people in your church to trade this information. So as we go forward that is the group of people that we're going to have in mind and we're going to shape the content that way. So I look forward to that starting to happen in the next couple of months and we'll engage with you a lot through e-mail and on these calls as we begin to do that.
[00:02:39] The other thing is our good friends we use infuse off to drive the engine of 24 to double and it's usus off as a membership site called customer which is what you're experiencing when you log into the membership site as many of you know it is it looks like something out of the Reagan era but it works really really well and but our good friends at effusions health has let us let us know this term sunsetting that they're going to be sunsetting that platform which sounds like a nice day at the beach but it turns out it's not so nice and that we are in the process of updating our membership site and moving it to a better platform that's going to make it a lot easier for you to consume the content. A couple of neat things that will be available there and this is not a big deal. Some of you but you'll be able to actually click a button and control the speed of the videos. So if you're preparing for this content before you meet with your team you'll actually be able to do that on one video. Right now we've got the two XP at the bottom. This is going to be much better than that. The other thing is everything that we do every product that we that we offer will be on this one platform when it gets up and running. So when you log in and everything that you have purchased or have yet to purchase will be in one place you have one log in you'll get everything and for you that have bought several products from Facebook to video training that kind of. That's like a big moment and then the last thing is they don't have Ellen Messis them or a learning management system on it.
[00:04:07] So that means when you log in you're going to be right where you left off which is Shekinah glory moment for me to be able to not have you guys have to remember where you left off especially if you take a short break from the content. So all of that's going to be awesome. The other thing that I wanted to tell you about is some additions to our theme and I think this is important to you to know that Jerry innot we've been doing this for five years now and in both of us when we talk about this we agree we're just getting started. We feel like 2500 pages is a drop in the bucket compared to what we're going to be able to impact over time. So two months ago I hired a gentleman named Will Graham. He was previously running the rocket company for those of you that know that organization and will is maybe the second day that he worked here it became very apparent to me that we'll is better at running an organization like this than I am. I'm more I'm better at figuring out breaking things and then fixing them. So we brought along to kind of run the day today and help us scale 24 to double as well as build some new offerings and answer some other problems that pastors have and then we'll it's going to be behind the scenes kind of making sure that everything works together and that our messaging is consistent and more than anything that we don't get off target from what we feel like God's called us to do. Jessica is still with us but we've hired somebody to help her with the customer service that you may have heard from already named Lianna. Jessica had a brilliant idea.
[00:05:34] Why don't we hire somebody that's familiar or Ingiriya church to help us with customer service so they can help us answer all of the all of the Daystar questions that we don't necessarily know the answers to because we're in Atlanta and they're in Coleman. So lianas new to our team so I'm excited about that. One down note as we've been talking about the sermonettes platform for the last six months and every month we talk about it's going to be ready next month. Well I'm excited to say it's still not ready yet when I say excited not happy and excited kind of what in the world is going on kind of excited. But I continue to hear that we're we're really really close. So we should have that in the next how many go and say the next month because that's what I've been saying for the last five months so we're dangerously close to having that together. So here's the last big announcement big thing you need to know about some of you may already be aware of this. Gerri over the years we have talked about my past my wretched past working for John Maxwell company. And about six months ago they approached me to come back and run a division or one of John's companies just got six companies and they needed somebody that knows what I've learned how to do partnering with Yeary to lead in an organization. I'm not sure what that the future total future of that looks like but I am now fully engaged in helping run those organizations on a part time basis.
[00:06:57] So I'm still doing vision planning and strategy stuff on 24 to double the things we're doing here trying to do the same kind of things over there although there's a lot more going on and a lot more to day to day manage on there. And the reason I say that is because we dropped the podcast today called the John Maxwell leadership podcast that I'm actually hosting with the CEO of John's company and then we're taking John's content and trying to drill down into organizations being guys that lead small to medium size organization. So a lot going on that's a lot. I wanted to make sure that you guys knew people have asked me what is the future for that. Like a lot of the people in our space are selling these companies so they build a company and then they sell it and then watch what happens after that. And number one that's not what God called me to it's not what God called Jerry to as long as I'm breathing and I will have. There will be a way that I feel like I'm participating in building the church. And right now that way is 24 to double again. We feel like we're just getting started. The partnership with John Maxwell I saw as an opportunity for us to come alongside what they're doing. Funny enough John doesn't do a lot in the church world but there's a big need and he's aware of it.
[00:08:13] So my hope is is that in the medium term not long term or short term but in the next year year and a half there are opportunities for us to maybe come in and partner with them to kind of be the engine for helping you the past or move forward and grow the church we all all of us. John Maxwell included Mort Cole is the CEO Jerry Lawson. Me we'll jessica we're all passionate about the work that we're doing. And I think this is going to give us the opportunity to maybe play at an entirely different level. So do we take them much for being with you on all that. Hey Pastor you can feel free to ask questions about that when you get on. But today we want to answer your questions about your church. And when I asked Jerry to do before we got in is just talk about the fact that we're the end of the summer and it's it's game time is it time to get going again. So Jerry take it away. Absolutely. Thanks for that update Richard. I appreciate your commitment to affordable and pastors. I appreciate how it's always on your heart when we're looking. You know I always know it's not far from your mind which keeps her pastor Turcas better. And I just appreciate that I'm sorry about what could happen next. And thank you for being on July. You're like me can't be right there. There's something you kids out of school and something else going on. So I appreciate you being here with me. We've had some guys visit us recently. All the summer double passes to come to visit us at our central office at base far and that's been fun and I want it to be just real quickly addressed where you ought to be.
[00:09:54] What should I be right now as a pastor in the middle of your life and first of all you should be rested or resting. I mean let me start right there. Be really squid or pristine to be looking at some vacation time or is it already having a vacation time and use it to have your energy amped up and you are so ready to attack some things. I've had some things on my To Do list. You know we want to get this done a be able to attack this problem and I'm finally feeling the wind at my back again and energy to make it happen and it all just happens because I planned some time off and some time over some time with my family and I'm eager to come back winter so you're not doing that well you're not taking care of the best asset your church has the best physical therapy have you. So that's very important. And then that's the first thing I would say is that as it relates to the church calendar you ought to know what was happening this fall. What what big things are you going to do with your church this fall. This is a great time to be doing discipleship teaching right now because it is not the groceries and you're not going to have super. You know the crowds of guests coming in. So you know I'm in a teaching series on getting right now and stewardship going out there into a prayer series centered on the book of attacks. But at the same time we do lots of planning about what we're going to see happen this fall. What are next year's major goals are. You know how that's going to roll out with our style with our board of elders.
[00:11:46] And so this is a great time to be doing some big time planning what that's going to look like for giving you know what the budget needs to look like. So we're meeting with everybody who has any kind of spending power in our church. Having them give us you know budget ideas. We do budget balancing what that means is you know you don't get money to a certain area of the church because we gave it like supercheap prove to us every person has any budget spending ability has to prove why their department or this cause of this thing get church money so we don't start by saying what we spent X dollars on the kids since last summer. So we're going to go 10 percent more. We don't do that. We start at zero. Why do you spend any money on it if you don't have results. It shouldn't be there. So we're leaning into that because we set that budget in the late fall. So those are some of the things that merit yes huge. And Gary when you when you talk about just fine that are you or you're talking about data that can be measured right. Yes. So you know absolutely nothing happens that doesn't support the mission of our church community transformation to the loving power of Jesus. And so the question is when anybody says we need X number of dollars for this activity the question is how to how does this activity transform the community. Well we've been having it for eight years. So you ought to have data.
[00:13:16] You ought to be able to tell me you know we just had kids first at one of our campuses in the campus. The children's pastor emailed me and said hey here's seven families that are here this Sunday that never been before and they can't get fast you know. So those that kind of data has got to show up or you know we might have had great activity lots of phone people loved it. But if it didn't you know move us toward our mission then we're not going to fund it next year because we're you know we're wasting. And let me say you guys. Those of you that might be thinking well you know you got a small budget and you know we just pay what we have to pay to maintain the church. Never forget that your time is a gigantic part of the budget and your volunteers time is a gigantic part of the budget so when I say budgeting things and investing resources the financial side of that is really just half of the other half is your time. If you have staff your staffs time and you certainly have volunteers who volunteer you time you're still budgeting things for for an activity or a goal and you want to make sure that you're working toward the right things that are producing the results you want to see. And that's huge because know if you're doing something you're not doing something else all the time. And the reason I love the dad mindset is because something can feel really good but not be productive at all.
[00:14:45] Yeah I was hoping I was going to be the best of them about a marketing meeting about how to do a better job with some grassroots mark it would be incredible social media marketing but I felt like we had dropped the ball little bit on grassroots marketing. And you know we had this great talk in this. And everybody felt they were going to do awesome and I said OK so what are the actual items. Who's doing what and when you're going to happen. Because if you have this great idea and you know everybody talks about how cool is going to be when we when we get to this place. But you know if we say it based on if there's not an agenda if there's not minutes and there's not action items you really didn't have a meeting you're not a party or you had a discussion. But if we didn't have an agenda going in we don't have minutes going out and with no action items following up that was not a real meeting and you just wasted your time and my time. So you know that that's been very important that's also one of the things that I started asking in the meetings that I'm hearing is what do we have to accomplish in this meeting. Because we can get off we get off task in a hurry. OK. We've got quite a few callers in the queue now. So let's. You ready to jump over here. Let's do it let's do it. It would go the other way. OK. Money that they might. Hey thank you so much for taking the time.
[00:16:21] I'm with my executive pastor we take a few days up in the mountains to look through all of the 24 to double material and one of the first questions we have were a church that's right about a thousand in attendance. That's everybody men women and children and we've been hovering around that for a while and breaking that thousand barrier question to Jerry. How do you move from a staff leader model to what 24 doubles. Talking about Mormon Ephesians 11 for 11 model but a large Japanese crew that ship yes so you really have to swim. You have to start with your staff mistakes I've made over the years making assumptions that my staff and I were that they all were just as passionate just as intuitive in terms of catching an idea as I was. And if past are going well so I have really want to back away and start by pestering the staff first and so really ask them what you know. Pakistan to give first maybe some other things like Clints fighters. You know Myra's breach or whatever. Get a good picture of what their area of gifting is and when you when you start talking about you know worship pastor he's probably prophetically gifted you know that usually his boom. And that means he probably does not handle the details well and that he doesn't handle anybody follow up in terms of pastoral care. Well so I stopped by casting these into my whole team. How wonderful would it be if you as a prophetically gifted worship leader you didn't have to worry about details so. You know you you didn't have to worry so much about following. You may not know that you would never go visit someone in the hospital who's on your worship team or in your choir or whatever.
[00:18:22] But you have to notice that they weren't here three Sundays in a room and you need to go with someone there who's empowered on the team and they're probably not getting paid even just volunteers. And so I would build a Bible with my TV. Get them really excited because this little boy and feel of the all important parts of the past. Oh a big new program at them and it is going to get a lot of head a lot of headwind and you're going to be fighting against it. So that's that's the first thing that comes to my mind is you know when when we can maybe just make your ask maybe my question why how is it without construct. I did talk about that. But first of all first of all if you don't shepherd their heart into it they won't be champions for it and it just won't work. OK. Hey Mike how old is the church. Well 40 48 years old and I've been there for 13 years. Pastor Brian is my executive and he's been with me for about seven years now. And did you grow to without I mean get out. Tell me about the growth of the church. We went from 500 to 1000 during that time that been the pastor Hey so this is a very practical question I don't know if you know this but I spent years building churches and we're assuming that you have identified the problem with the leadership model. You are you are you confident that you've got room to grow past a thousand yes we could add services and get more creative with parking. What does that mean more creative with parking.
[00:20:06] We can we can we have a second campus with our school level. And there's a couple options we could do to extend our parking because that could be a lot of times when the Turks everything is can't figure it out if you come back and if you're 80 percent full is full. I mean that's the standard right. Probably a little bit less if you got Pughs but I'm assuming that you have Fuser or chairs. We have a multipurpose building that has fair. OK. So just for everybody to listen to the call the three places that a church get Stutz with capacity is in the worst area in the children's ministry and in the parking lot. So if if you've got a glass ceiling in one of those places I don't care how great a leader you are how great the messaging is or the student ministry if you don't have enough parking you don't have two parking spaces for every person that's going to be on campus at one time. Church is probably not going to grow as much as you think you can change people's behavior it's really hard to do. Same thing with kids ministry. You got a big worship area in your kid's ministry has fallen behind the national average says that for 100 adults an average church you're going to have 33 kids in the church that I go to here in Atlanta we have 100 for 100. So you've got to know what your numbers are and then make sure that the math works out on how many square feet you've got to have for a toddler and the average person doesn't know those numbers.
[00:21:29] But when they come in drop their kid off and it looks like it's gravy. You know the two year olds are they're going to feel less easy about it and that's just going to be one more reason not to not to return. So those are just some things to think about and then a worship area. I mean 80 percent full Isbel and if you're whole in your main people most people want to come to the church and 11:00 on Sunday morning and if you get to 60 to 70 percent of capacity in a service the way from that you're really doing something well so it could take that as me people are going to show up for a 430 service as they will for 11 days. Doesn't normally happen and I say that camp but it doesn't only happen yeah. So I talked about capturing the heart of the staff. Are there other questions follow up you have about that. Just that Bryan. Bryan. Bryan good thing is he's more smart than he's smarter than I but he got credibly administrative skills and been able to see and reorganized and managed things. We've just our staff is where the heart is there. We've just been identifying that we think we've got people that are in the wrong the wrong seats on the bus yes. And I think we need to go back and get the gifts surveys Yeah that's a big deal for us and actually you know they said we're committed to having a young staff. And so we were constantly things people grow. And so that's we there's a lot of not turnover in the sense of people leaving our staff.
[00:23:13] But turnover in the sense of changing jobs within the staff because you know you came on staff some of them 18 years old and you know like Pavier 28 years old probably doing something different and that creates a very healthy momentum this excitement that I'm not you know you know millennials like to like a change of mind do a lot of different things. So it's kind of baked into our culture that we want to know what you're passionate about and we're going to help you identify where your gifts are. And in so doing you're going to see where your weaknesses are. And so we want to put teams around you and it just really it just it just really liberates people when I tell for instance my worship pastor that you've got cords lying on the stage during worship and it looks junky and it's not your fault because you never even noticed this gabbled dance all over the court and didn't even know it was under his feet you know. And that's OK. You know it is completely ok as long as you put the system in place that we're training needed to. And you identify who it is and empower them to serve in that area. And to me that's one of the most ready things to let me know something that I'm terrible at. I don't really ever have to do and to let someone else who feels like they don't have anything special to offer to let them know. No actually what you have is going to save my hide. I need you in that area. That is so encouraging and empowering to them.
[00:24:41] To me that's really the secret sauce of this whole system is getting people in the right seats on the bus. This is. This is Brian. Thanks for that. The question I have is where the how does the staff fit into the leadership matrix. That is the I started. Are they large yet the force and vie for leadership. Yes so you're you just would make sure everybody knows what this question is. When you look at the Matrix which by the way I am and Jerry love the matrix we love spreadsheets until we meet you. I just know you like day in some way is just awesome. And I get to that when I just that a bunch of staff members the first time this scares them it really confused people them and not everybody sees the world in spreadsheets like black and what administrators. So be aware that you were capable of that but you know across the top you know we've heard that we have our top highest people you know you know you're going to have Brian's going to be that administrator under the Apostle Gaskin you know as somebody who has a real privilege is not the end but prophetic gift across the top. And that's probably staff members we have had some you know just really high level volunteers and elders in our church at a place on the top.
[00:26:13] But then when you get down at the team level we always start by putting if you have a good robust path put them at the administrative position in that in that team even though they may not all be administrators and they change their not only about 10 percent of the houses have administrative gaps but they own that team. And so at the very beginning we will push you right there until you find a strong administrator and then you get a secretary paid. But in most cases you don't know. And you don't have a strong administrator. I might even have that that was your pastor's name there and within the current SES underneath it and that's you know somebody that you know helps him in that area and then their name is going to land. Also lacrosse that grid in their area person. So it might not be surprising that the administration and the prayer leader be the same person in the worship area to start with. So you can use your matrix or you know laid out you might find a couple of people with their name twice on there but definitely staff is going to go on that matrix somewhere. Yeah that's helpful. It's predominately volunteer and that's what I think where we were struggling with this where the staff that into the Yeah Yeah that's great. And you know I really build the team stronger. He might move off of a staff member might live off of that matrix. But in theory you know he occupies all those roles because you know he's over all of them he's making sure to get all that work done. But the more people you empower the more excited they are the church grows faster. If I can get my name off of that matrix I want to do that even though I'm also on staff knows it's really my responsibility. Yes. So about that about the kangaroos.
[00:28:26] Get the pastors breakfast when where Brian and I were watching the videos we got I think through module 7 already. You mentioned Jerry that you had kind of gone back and forth. And the consistency of every week could you just expound on that a little bit. Yes. I like to do that every week because of the heat because of the tendency of a person to walk into your church if they have a reason to like you and you get a firsthand gas and they have a reason to come back two weeks in a row or three weeks in a row. They almost nothing isn't in the churches you know. I just met a lady this Sunday who came to my church over a year ago. They were visiting churches and she came to my church and came at the wrong time. She misunderstood the service times drove down the street to another church went to that church for a year before she came back and actually visited my church. She's telling me all this because she's saying we're never going to leave this church. We love it. Yes. Had a happy had a happy ending. But that's that's what happens is when people go week after week after week they tend to lock in they visit any other churches and so that's why I want the pastors meal to be every week so that when a guest comes on this week we can invite them back the very next week. And you know in smaller churches that might be difficult. I realize that.
[00:29:54] But you know we we use it at the campus level we have multi campuses and we know we launched campuses with 100 people and we do it there as well. So you know consistency is the key and so we try and make happen every week digo you go Jerry did that for about 20 minutes and then you go preach and your staff take care of the rest of the hour of that pastors breakfast. Yeah that's right. Staff and volunteers. And I'm actually probably not even there 20 minutes if I'm there 20 minutes 15 minutes before and five minutes during the actual time. So I'm not there very much at all. OK. And you know one thing we do to populate it early on is we invite the entire church to go through it because this is a new opportunity. And you know we haven't established church who is really genuinely focusing on newcomers like we should be doing. There may be a little blowback because they're used to the church being about them kind of like a country club and they're playing their country club fees and we call it tied. So they want to get their services figured discussion. But at the beginning I encourage you to invite church members to go and you know maybe maybe lay it out based on their last name or whatever because you're going to cast vision and they need to hear you're going to give spirit to give test. They need to have that done you know onramp them in the ministry. Some of them are in ministers in the wrong place and some of them are not in ministry at all. And that also helps you gain some momentum to get this thing rolling. Get it off the ground.
[00:31:34] Is your youth ministry. Do they follow the same model down to their organizational structure. Like the high they do. They don't separate pastors mailing things but we try to do everything the same. So they've got an old team the five home structure where you know there's a shared responsibility across the page. So you know that you know the big problem at a big level the big problem with everybody has a problem that when kids graduate high school and they try to go into or even college and they're try to go into the sort of service Sly's the whole adult part of church. They're leaving and alarming rates. And one of the reasons is because we train them to love something that is is definitely going away. So we try to make sure that's not the case that you don't leave youth church. And then when you go to an adult church is completely different we try to use all the same terminology or small group structures the same the way we do things is a saying a lot of our big series of teaching we do them in the youth as well as the adult they partnered together. Certainly structure. Same thing. So do the songs that you share with us like a couple of big mistakes you made. Like what were your couple of big failures through this like two year walk through that you would help us. Brian and I was so there is a lot of churches have mentioned that we got a little too legalistic about The Matrix and filling out the matrix and having lots of meetings you know at every meeting all the time.
[00:33:21] We've got a little too legalistic about that. I think that was a problem. You know some churches will find problems by trying to blow up the existing system rather than merge. What you're doing into the 24 double model so you get a good senior citizen ministry but there's nowhere to really put it on the matrix will just make it a small group you know do you know don't blow it up don't don't create it. But I think the biggest problem churches do is they get the but it's what I call them. No I'm on the screen I'm teaching you what to do and somebody goes up but you know we're we're not in Alabama Yeah but we don't have a church that large or yeah but we don't have that kind of ministry or however we don't have that kind of budget. And I would just caution not to do that. Our one of our best success stories and you know our church's charismatic sort of we don't really name it that out loud but we were told to put it in a category be kind of old more charismatic side. One of our biggest success stories is an independent fundamental King James version only Baptist Church. Now that's crazy. But there are 24 that church. Two years in a row they won the top 100 fastest growing churches in America. Coming out of the bubble. But that pastor tells me that the biggest success our biggest movie they made was when he sat his team down. He said Our church is small we don't have enough budget to pay for 24 to double Betina was 200 dollars a month.
[00:35:06] He said We can't afford two hundred dollars a month so we're either going to keep our two hundred dollars or we're going to do exactly what the process is today and then we'll see if it works or not. And he told me he's the best thing you ever did was charges two 200 hours a month because that 200 was just enough to make us make a decision on whether or not we're actually going to do what we're taught to do. And so that church that couldn't be more different from us looks a lot I guess internally structured wise looks just like many of these churches I'm talking to right now the same system because they bought into it. And so that's one of the major mistakes church. Not yet but. And they said well we're established you know a lot of churches are not where we are and so we're going to go off the reservation. And there's room for some changes. I will admit that. But really the bulk of 24/7 work just like it's taught everywhere. Try it. KERRY You you working with your executive pastor do most of the top level decisions the two of you kind of make and then filter that down. He filters that down to the staff. Yeah I would say we did do that man. We spent a lot of time talking about how that filtering happened and we try to be very careful that which speaks to a whole lot more why and a whole lot less what.
[00:36:34] Because if you don't capture their hearts they go out it halfheartedly and you know the first thing we told our staff is the thing I tell my Spafford. The people who get you where you are will probably not be the people to get you to where you're going. And so while I appreciate your investment into this church and this team to get us to where we are we have made it so far. You're not going to make it. Where we're going next unless you reinvent yourself. And you know we transition some members out during that change because they didn't they didn't really believe our method and what we tell them at the beginning of every year hey you know the me you're looking at right here and look like this next year because you know what got us to this point won't get us to the next point. And I don't want to lose my position so I'm going to get better I'm going to grow. You know I'm going to I want to go double down in my learning and I'm going to be a different better version of myself and it's different and better version of yourself you won't be a teenager. And you know we've consistently told our team that hey Mike great questions people took me seriously in the beginning. We've got a pool of folks here are great questions. So yeah let us let us know how it's going. We will to the how are you if you get message good questions that probably would have cut you off much sooner. It's a great question. Yes it's good stuff for everybody. OK. Let's keep moving. I think this is Lynn Wilson. Hey Richard. Jerry thank you for taking my call.
[00:38:16] I'm kind of smiling from the previous caller because he's right where we were at about eight or nine months ago asking all of those same questions and so we're about nine months into the 24 to double process and it has been amazing for us to watch the transformation in our church. Maybe not yet as much with the numbers of new folks coming in and although we have had a steady stream but watching our people go from sitting in a chair and being a witness to what goes on around them to becoming participants in in ministry. We went over the last nine months from about having 125 people in positions of ministry and leadership to where we're almost to the 300 mark. Now I was also having those those people there. So one of the questions or my question has to do with the gifts and passions profile. So we're a little bit of a larger church kind of like the previous pastor of membership of about a thousand we see between 650 and 700 each week. Of course we're Baptist so they come in three week cycles and so can't come know can't get everybody here at all. Pam but but with respect to the gifts and passions profiles that we have that we do during the pastors breakfast we did those through our small group time to be able to do that for all the members of our church. And so what we're finding a little bit of a of a struggle is trying to narrow those down to the seven teams.
[00:40:09] Matter of fact we have expanded ours to 12 teams instead of seven just because we felt like that for us and in our context having one team for Children and Youth was was a bit problematic where we have a team that is a student team and they have their leadership structure and we have a children's ministry came with their own leadership structure as well as a nursery team. And so we also broke out men's and women's ministry as well as missions. But the gifts and passions profiles still has only the seven teams there. And has there ever been any thought or did you have a suggestion as to if you have a bit of a larger church and you're trying to use more ministry teams and maybe a little less subthemes that there's that there's some vehicles some mechanism to be able to determine that those gifts and passions in a little bit narrower focus. Yeah that's a good question. I think I would say as a church your Sanju probably gets resources where you can create that that gifts and passions profile. Would they excel on your own and add those additional teams. You know in its earliest stages before it was an online application. We just we just used it in an Excel spreadsheet and if you get someone pay probation in excel you like it they could build that for you and you could add those other teams the way you want it. And you can make it happen on your own. Do you think there is the a pro or a con to having less teams. So 7 and more subthemes or more legitimate teams with their own leadership structure. As opposed to you know smaller number of teams and more subthemes or more more teams and less sub teams.
[00:42:28] Yeah well Lynn there's a poll and you just have to bounce as a leader you know your context best but the problem is obviously you know you've got more people stepping up in leadership you get more people in power to be decision makers and that is fantastic progress. Also as you know the strength of an organization is based on how down the chain someone actually makes meaningful decisions. So I love that. The only con I would hope that I would be careful of is that you can lose the division or the mission and you get complicated you remember. You know we encourage you to reach simple church and you are gaining of this. And how important it is that you just you know you circle on a few things that really matter and you don't get off the trail. And so as long as you can manage all those teams structurally you know as long as no one's leaving the reservation you know well I just happened. I'm glad I'm finally you know leadership because this church has been needing more southern gospel singing where you know you've got to be careful against somebody kind of going off the reservation reservation for some churches but whatever you know your passion is in focus and make sure that when you get more people in leadership and in a bigger hierarchical structures that you don't lose the focus. The Vatican the organization OK. Let me let me just say something just about the practicality of the Gissen passions has to in the context of what you're talking about. You're so the gifts and passions test of this kind of pull in the layer back.
[00:44:11] It's a it's a bunch of questions about spiritual gifts and then it's several it's about questions about what you're passionate about. Basically what we're trying to get him to tell us is where do they think they fit. Right. So in the context of what you're talking about the gifts part doesn't change at all. You're just talking about basically instead of having one team you've got three subsets of the same team that gives and passions as it's currently set up would still tell you that those people are interested in student or children's ministry then you might have to ask another question as those are coming in and saying hey specifically what gets you excited about that. I don't know. Jerry talks about the Excel spreadsheet and the one that converted it from an Excel spreadsheet to to the online version and the formula that Lance was the executive pastor that kind of was the mastermind the evil genius behind that thing. The formula in there is more than more than what somebody just a little familiar with Excel would need to know. And what I'm saying is it would be a lot of extra work to add those extra teams then when in reality it's just another question that you need to be able to use to filter hey where would you feel most feel most comfortable because are there gifts. Part is not going to change in fact it's the same test for all the teams. The passion part just tells us what team they would most be excited about being on.
[00:45:28] I don't know if that clarifies it for you at all but you had seen it was the kind of the top of the funnel you know looking at those things then it would be. It's a lot easier than trying to create your own believe me and not just you know one of my dreams is to turn this thing into a multi site software program where when you buy the paid version for a couple of bucks a month you would be able to go in and customize the team names and that kind of stuff. As you saw in that that's two software programs away apparently OK. Very good. I appreciate you taking my question. Chris 24 to double and all that you do and for churches around this country. Thanks guys. Thank you. All right Rinaldo I think Ronald not Ronald. Hey I'll take it. Soccer. Thanks guys for taking my call. And for doing this Q and A We're in a smaller church to through a split two weeks before I got here and were trying to organize in a way that we can get all these things done and that were modular 5 and we've got when I go to the hub and download the module to play for the folks we do it once a month and once that's the old church then I say all the documents underneath it and I'm I'm slightly confused by that one must suppose do with all those things. There's never a reference to it during the module. I say never. There's often not a reference to all those documents during the modern what a practical here's what you do with these things. This week is or am I missing something. Is there a manual I'm supposed to have that would tell me all that stuff.
[00:47:08] Or is that just gonna come to. Yeah it will. Here's what it is. It's the PowerPoint presentation that Jerry do. And then there's a hand out in there. So basically here's my personal opinion on that. If you want to make this thing a lot harder do it. Download everything and make copies of it and handed out to people instead. Because the handout was multiple pages and then we were finding that people were churches were had anywhere from four people to 40 people in those meetings. And when you start making you know 15 copies for 440 people it's a nightmare versus just having people sit there and take notes and then have a conversation about it afterwards. So basically we wanted to make sure that you had everything that we got access to. Now in some modules like modules 2 and 3 there's information in there about the gifts and passions best to get it to download is like Jerry said on the last call. Used to be that you took that test it was a very manual process. You could take the test Excel document and print out the results and then you could categorize them now. Volunteer test dot com there's a free version of that. And then we also have a paid version of that too. That's 15 bucks a month if you want it sitting on your church website. But the volunteer test ICOM will get it done for you. But in just two and three. There's some documentation about the gifts and passions stuff and explanations of certain of those those results.
[00:48:34] But the other stuff that's in all the modules is just the PowerPoint of the messages and then handouts for those and it says PowerPoint or handout. So if you wanted to download them and just kind of look into it they like and then you can make a decision as to whether or not you want to print those out we we have found over the years that very few people actually print that content out. Now the power points were pastors and the teachers themselves. Oh I got it again. Yeah which is again if you want to do that. That's great. You want to make this thing ten times harder than it needs to be. And I'll have that in my pocket and I'm going to say. That sounded like like it was convicting thing that I'm saying some passes absolutely want to do that. God bless them. The power of this thing in my mind was being able to bring somebody into your organization every month to teach this and learning along with people and then you have leaders that are powering up and learning how to lead the process. I'm all in favor of letting Jerry continue to do impromptu. In fact I really enjoy the week that I don't have to teach only now I get to be a part of the group and listen and learn myself. But I just don't want us to miss what we're supposed to be implementing with. Because I have no way of knowing things Axum point that says here's what you do this week according to what you learn in this module so well that's where the conversation come to and I'll let Jerry speak to that. That's where you.
[00:50:02] We can only tell you what the big picture then you've got to figure out how to take it and make it work in your church and I think that that is the secret sauce OK. Yeah I mean I think you have to have those conversations with your team. What. What we learn from here. That's why you want to be out ahead of them. You want to listen to it. That's why we have it available in fast motion. You know just get your head around it substantively and within the words you know and then you sit with your team and your congregation whoever's watching TV you watch it again and then you ask leading questions about where we're going next what are our next steps and then that's where you lead. You know OK I'm good with that. You're taking the steps yeah. When you said do exactly as was supposed to be you know OK I was going to follow it that way as you guys told me to do it. So I'm supposed to be a little more proactive. I'm good with that. Yeah yeah. That that that we're here to do the Google search for thank God or Wynalda as it were. OK. Next question here. I'm not sure who this is. Two 1 for gets me. My name's Brian. It's a Texas area code but I'm actually in California and kept the same phone number so I'm in Southern California. I'm here with our sort of our big events and hospitality person and sharing that Debra who we've just assigned we've been in the process for a few months.
[00:51:37] We just assigned somebody to be the project manager over all of 24 hours that for us just work. We've got a good sized staff and a lot of volunteers so that's how we were sort of organizing and having somebody over the whole thing and where we are right now is to we we've had the material for a few months. We've we've been creating our matrix and finding language that works for us in terms of the positions on each team and we're ramping up for our first big event in September. We've assigned the day and named it and we're ready to roll some things out. Some specific questions How do you coach people to give you the names of seven people to invite in worship. And so we're thinking we're going to have a connection card and so we're putting that on the connection card this week since it's already material. They're used to. And then you don't have any. And do you have any luck. What's the follow up with that. Do they give you the seven names they're not going to give you all the contact information. You've got a cycle back and get that drill down to get that contact information. Do you have the complex. Go ahead sorry. Yeah well what we do is when you when you when you register for say baptism or something like that we we ask for those seven names and then we have a receptionist that works in the office to be a volunteer obviously who will follow up and and call him names and and get their contractor information.
[00:53:06] So you know when you're a small it works and you know you've got a small businesses probably happening a lot more expeditiously but in large churches you may not be getting seven names from every person you know. The idea is that your only task is being made in a certain number of people. And you know if I told you they were getting several invites for every single person being that policy or with a child being dedicated a little kid in a probe at the wrong. But that's our that's our our mark that we're shooting for. It's generating a lot more invites but I guess maybe maybe I misunderstood the videos. We sort of haven't watched all of them myself and we're a larger church relatively speaking for Presbyterians. We've got 700 to 800 in attendance. We've got a large budget. We've got a good staff to really some of the resources are on our issue it's just really organizing this big barge. You know it's moving. I've been here about a year which I guess maybe I'm misunderstood and what I saw in some of the material were thinking about ramping up for the September event and getting people to invite people. You know there's obviously marketing that goes with that you use some specific strategy to get people to invite to give you names of people to invite to that event. Or was the seven names something that typically was there. Yeah yeah the seven names have to be were small smaller activities so we told you to do four big events that year at Christmas fairs whatever and they fill it with other events that you're already using makes us more resourceful and more clear by inviting friends that are child education or whatever.
[00:54:59] Back to the mix like that. So that's where is when they register for those events you ask for the contact names of who can inside as it relates to the big events the four big events Easter Christmas cetera. You're trying to take the entire church through the process. You want them to do the invites entirely. You're not getting contact information so that you can invite and get up. Just be really careful with contact information in a broad school anyways because there's so many new rules laws about mining people's data and getting their information. So the way we're trying to get every person to be an insider is first of all we're preaching it. We're talking about Jesus's message to go to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in. Secondly we're you know we're we're making it a cool event by getting out on social media and the movers and shakers in our congregation are talking about their lives how they're doing invitations sir projects that also serve as invitation opportunities where we're putting invite cards in the weekly worship guide. So people are able to just take those those in invite cards right in and hand them out to you know friends and family. All through the next week. So that that's really more of the way that's happening right. You know ask for data. Got it. Do you have any specific templates for guest follow up stuff in terms of we use the connection card every week and our changes every week we add something to it every week to kind of get people to look at the card. We've got a moment where they fill it out.
[00:56:39] We sort of highlight it. I know you use more of the prayer request cards which I get when you get when you get guests do you do you have a specific you know here's how many times we contact them. Here's the follow up process we do. Yes. And that is not that's not a we don't have like a product yet in 24 to double for that which you could talk to someone our team is based on if you want to about how we just follow up. But it is robust. It is very robust. More than I could explain this phone call. But you can certainly call in to our office and talk to somebody there on our staff and they can give you a little more information about how we do that. All right. Just real quick one more. The pastor's breakfast every week we have multiple services already. We've got to Saturday night. We've got eight thirty eight 30 10 and 11 30. Yeah. Where would you be. So they're crammed together. There's only there's a little break between you know where where would you put it. I mean so yeah I would I would put it. I would probably in that context put it on top of one of those services realizing that that may threw somebody out. But it's entirely whatever was my best service in terms of attendance. I would try to see that service.
[00:58:13] And so I would say to someone who comes at you know you're sort of sound when it comes at 11 hey just come to the to the 930 pastors breakfast and someone who comes to the bank or the service someone say you pay next week's going to be Patrick's breakfast but you stay for service at 11 instead of 930. It kind of would give the I appreciate it. That answers your question. Yeah that's actually exactly how we do it could we have motor services that Saturday night services. We didn't try to do it all on both days. Thank you. Thanks much. The last thing last thing I would say in response to the pilot Brian is just everybody you can sit down over lunch and ride on the back of a napkin like a follow up process and if you implement that you'll be better off than 80 percent of just in America without knowing anything that he's doing. I highly recommend going into the store and getting some starting point but that's one thing as a church we're just not doing very well. All right yeah it's coal we've got three more Gary. So this is 3 3 0 0 0. Area code Hello my name is Caitlin Herx. And we just presented my 47 program to our church leadership team last night and they're all excited and on board with that we're just great at it. We are a small conservative rather church 60 people 80 percent of them over 60. We have two regular young adults and two regular children so we got something we were not going to have much to work with in a couple years.
[00:59:55] So yes they ready to move forward in my specific question is what's the best way to present this ministry model to the congregation now that the staff knows about it and are on board and the church board knows it and they're on board. How do we effectively share with the congregation. So you know I'm going to always default to lie the lie and you can't do enough why. So I would I would preach week after week after week that can be a lot of the stuff I'm teaching in the first few modules wanted to see a specialty module on a lot of the condition of the church where we are as a church and you know you've got to find a way to appreciate the fact that all of those 60 year rule us members met Jesus in that model of a church. So you know for them it's salvation it's hey you know it's wonderful. So you've got to find a way to the Nikkei index value. But at the same time know that is that is clearly not working it's not going to work and that you're having to you know change the way we do it and talk about the reason why we make that change. So you know there's that matter as far as ruling it out to the entire Tuccillo it will be you know what are we doing. I'm not sure I rolled it out to the entire church. You know I get in. You know I'm I might talk about the change that we're going to make in this new system that we're going to implement. But as far as really laying the whole thing out of them out I would make a big ask.
[01:01:44] You know just really put it out in front of the people and then have a Wednesday night or something like that you know gave them an opportunity to come for more information or you know just to see this maybe maybe these two people get this exciting new thing it's going to you know change the way we reach people and make our church younger. You know here's where it's going to take that approach. So out a nice. Everybody comments. Are there. I'm sorry could you repeat that question. You're saying. So strap a particular day at a particular night. Everybody's calm and we'll share all the details. Not all of it. Yeah. We're all yes. Yes but you know just remember we're not having a meeting. We're having a movement. You know we're not implementing a program we're we're doing evangelism. You know people reject this system when it when they don't hear the why and when when they're just told hey you know our church is too old and we're not reaching young people and you know we get this program is going to help us do it. So get the details on Wednesday night. It's really got to be a movement there's got to be passion it's got to be you know genuine do what you do you're a preacher do what you preach it. I mean I'm a I'm a proponent I'm against all announcements by the way. You may hear me say that in 2012 double that I still believe in announcements while it's now anything. You know I would I would if it's on stage time in your church is of you talking about it then you ought to be preaching it. You know I talk about that a lot.
[01:03:30] So you know do the same thing with it don't announce it preachers get passionate about it. You know throw scripture at them and that's that makes sense. Yes. Many foreign leaders talked about we have some very important glaring gaps in looking at leadership being given a set of figures most glaring gaps. We have we have two people willing to teach children congregates. Right now we have others willing to help. Now we won't preach. We are not teachers. So we talked about we need to recruit some missionaries from that are not a part of our church but there are dedicated Christians to come and help us with some of these areas are really weak and lacking manpower and we could have a presentation nicer for back room for people in order not to work. Well you know again what I would do rather than do their what I would do is I would roll out one and don't roll or anything else and celebrate celebrate celebrate or to roll out with respect to children's ministry. There are resources where you know you don't have to peeps. You know you can have an organizer who holds that activity or a day or snack and then you know you watch a really high quality video teaching and you know so you don't you don't have to have a you know a person that really sees himself as a teacher. Until some corners you can in that respect. But you know don't rule out anything that you're not ready to roll out.
[01:05:16] So you know there's one thing you can do is really make greeting Ministry first and patient a while fact just do that and celebrate the heck out of that. And then out of that momentum we'll build something else. But I would go with I'll be careful not to do more than we're ready to do at one time. Make sure you have a standard insolence differently. Don't don't don't compromise that for the sake of adding something else. OK very good. Thank you for sharing your heart. Thank you. OK. Two more. All right. Hi my name's Rod Stutzman. How are you that question the guest in passion survey. You can run the effect. We just gave it to our group module. We just did module 3 gave it to the group that meets there and got over them and I've put them on spreadsheets. And what I'm realizing as I told them to stay and you know 0 1 or 3 or 4 and I'm looking at the people's responses on them and trying to put them into the matrix I'm looking at some of them I'm white again still that the people are still me where they come from because they're brand new Christians. They don't seem like everybody is great and everything still. And I know you question are you you gave the perspective and I tried to really hammer on like if you don't think you're great is there is there something is there something that I'm missing or is there or is there a you know the only thing I know you know the only thing I I do that I think helps is unbury so we're taking about my weaknesses. For instance I am very prone to hold a meeting about whatever changing the world.
[01:07:27] I'll hold a meeting about a new prayer ministry and I will forget to pray during the week like I'm Berri's and I'm very systematic and structured and it's not on the agenda I will do it. So I make light of that. I laugh about it and I'm very self-deprecating to try to teach people to know that you can love God and really do something great for God and still have weaknesses. And so be honest about those weaknesses. And you know that that that tends to help somewhat but at the end of the day you know you may have to have larger churches you or you live yours kind of extrapolate from what those folks have done on that spiritual gift just knowing that you know honest what they may not have been entirely honest and what they say is their strength may not be their strength and you have to kind of massage back. I guess that's really the issue. And that was another thing I told him I said take it again. You know I have multiple tests. And I mean and I love the perspective of the spreadsheet I created my own spreadsheet for I love playing with Excel. And I think that's really going to help me also to identify and then even the substructure that the caller before it called on I can't put those into my own because really I think I'm going to have them circle I'm just I just printed them up on the on the gifts or the passion even because a lot of people were asking me like all I want to do is the kids church.
[01:09:04] And so I said Well it put a 4 there but they said I don't. But I'm really not passionate about the others and so so I think even been able to specify on that passion's part. I think that's my answer. Other caller really helped me see that what I'm going to do with that which I don't think you can do that online but we can do it by paper they can just circle that and I can have that answer. But I guess that was my big struggle as I'm looking at all these here. I got like 60 sitting in front of me and I'm like holy cow. I don't agree with a lot of. And here's the thing though. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. People are complicated. The reason you like Excel. I kind of chuckled when you said you liked it so because you don't need me Pesquera to get this. Now I know you search for gifts just because you like it so you know you're you know people are not like computers and the real life executives because predictable. It's going to do what utilities do every time and people are just not that way. You know you're administering the people's business. So a person may think of us and because they think they're great and then we might do pretty well in it. So don't don't lean too heavily on like that to get them otherwise why not make sure they do. Because I've seen people who should I mean world history Squilla because they should not be able to serve well in this area but because they think they can they serve really well. And I have lost a lot of momentum.
[01:10:41] One of the other people were asking earlier might have been brilliant. He was one of our weaknesses that we've made in the past. I've lost some momentum by being too much of sticker world. You've got to be in the right slot you've got to make sure you do the right way and not realizing that a person's passion is stronger than their strength or weakness sometimes they're just passionate they're going to give you their best and you know they're hundred percent in an area that may not be perfect about it is better than 60 percent in a perfect area. So I don't know that speaks directly to what you're asking but no I don't. Yeah. Don't lose their momentum for any reason and that is just another piece of this real quick is the fact that once you get them in there the phraseology to be able to move them out of there. How do you again phrase that again. Always Youngberry say hey we're developing we're growing in this area and just for a season I like to use the word season you know biblical got change at times. But I like to say you know what this season rises next season will you help me this year. If they're killing it and they're crushing it their season might be until I die or retire. Once you're right here. But if they're not then it gives me the freedom to say Hey thanks so much for helping me through this season. And hey we're going to shift gears now and I think you might be able to help in this area.
[01:12:13] And so I just only go in with an exit strategy because you know my my ability to gauge what you're good at your ability to perform it's highly questionable and unpredictable. So I want an exit strategy excellent. Awesome. All right. It Frechette yes. Thanks a lot. Hello this is Pastor Johnson going to church in Gastonia. Hello guys. Hey. Good to hear from you. Good to hear you. And this might be a general problem Jerry and maybe you can help me on this. We started our next step. More or less as a class. We tried the pastor's prepress it didn't work too well for us and so we shifted to next step which is kind of a once a month session where we bring in the new people and we'll go through all the stuff that you probably would have gone through in a pastor's meal and spiritual gifts and small groups was the part where I'm having kind of a problem maybe a general problem more than just me is the membership we have for baptism Woodward considered her to take them into membership. But after we've seen higher attrition rate unfortunately with some of them that just after a period of time as well even while we were getting them into the allied groups they're not being consistent. What are some ways to analyze the process so that I can find some of the reasons for the attrition. I don't know if it's just the normal people or not really with it yet. Or what can you do. Q I know you say that 25 percent will stay but actually analyze. Say what the heck is wrong with that.
[01:14:10] And why are they falling out after a few months or several months. And even though we're doing the process. I don't know if you have that problem. Maybe you can answer and see what you have had in your various Yeah I think the thing that makes people squeaky most of all is small groups. So I think that's what makes him stick around in small groups. And so you know we try to make it we try to eliminate white noise. Somebody said I want to have a men's Berquist or I want to have or whatever. I just go. That's fantastic. That will fit in small groups so small groups means you know a few moves that make it a small group so that I don't have any any white No I don't have anything that distracts us from what we do. We do small groups we do small groups we do small groups and you know hammering that home is the best thing I can encourage. Another thing that churches do that I'm learning for them apart is that a lot of churches do these online surveys from people they kind of disappear and try to get them to give a little bit of feedback on what we could do better. That may not help you hope but I think that that's more. And I get more results when I'm proactive. I just try to hammer you know what I think really matters and so on a charge of small groups. People are not going to be as likely to stick.
[01:15:44] What about members you think is pushing too soon or you like there should be a way to see whether these people are really sticking up for the German people and then they cut out after several months you know members used to be something that really made people stick around. I'm a member of this thing. I've been accepted in this thing. I just don't think it says anything important. It's good to do it. But in terms of keeping people around him I don't think it has much to do with that. I really think it's relationships and that is most fossickers. That's also true. My question Why should we avoid that with that at that time are holding off until we see where they are. I mean I don't have a membership. Yeah we do have membership. And you know you can be a member in our church rather quickly you know within a within a few weeks if you want to. So that's the way we do it. They fall out after a while. Yeah I mean some some do. Sure some there you know it just comes down to if you're in a small group or people who are in small groups hardly ever fall out. You know people who are not in small groups hardly overstate. Thank you for your hospitality. Absolutely. Good to see you. OK. Hey that's it. Thanks so much everybody for taking the time. We read a little longer today seemed to work out pretty well we'll probably gotten it up a little bit next time as well. Gerri thanks so much for being on today.
[01:17:24] Hey gals thank you for being on I hope you know you're on my prayer list literally pray for you guys over and over again and hope you have a wonderful rest of your summer plans and some rest. And before I let you go I failed to do this every time. If you're listening to this on the podcast and you want to find out more about 24 to double check us out at 2:00 for trout dot com everything you need to know. We'll be on that page and we hope to see in some 24 to double thanks pastors.