24toDouble, Richard Chancy, Jerry Lawson

24D 28: Live 24toDouble Summer Members Q&A – May 2019

24toDouble Summer Members Live Q&A – May 2019

Summer is almost here!  What will you do?

  • Jerry’s plan for the summer
  • What are some effective ways to communicate to my volunteers about what we are going to be getting into with 24toDouble and to create excitement?
  • What is the Dream Team?
  • How long does the Pastor’s Breakfast normally take?
  • How do you suggest to do the Pastor’s Breakfast when you don’t have visitors every Sunday?
  • When do you begin to implement the Gifts and Passions Profile?
  • What is your advice regarding changing the name of our church?
  • How do I work on my Wednesday service to get more volunteers and to get more attendees?


Transcript +

Well, hey pastors. This is Richard Chancey with 24toDouble. I've got Jerry Lawson, pastor at Daystar Church, and the lead communicator on 24toDouble with me today. Thanks so much for being with us. If you are with us the first time, here's kind of how it works. We kind of run like this a radio call-in show. If you hit star six on your phone, it'll put you in the queue, and then when it's your turn, you'll be prompted to ask your question.

So as we're getting started, Jerry and I were talking a little bit before we got on about how can we invest in you with these first couple of minutes as people are getting into the queue. Jerry said, "Hey, why don't we talk a little bit about what I plan to do this summer to kind of rejuvenate, recreate myself, and kind of restart the ministry?" So Jerry, thanks for being with us. Why don't you dive in and share with us a little bit?

Yeah. Well, thanks for everyone who's on the call. We're an hour earlier today, so some of you may have had to adjust your schedules. We appreciate that. But yeah, summer is coming, and many of you probably are like me. You are that hard push from Easter all the way down to June.

About 40% of Americans go on vacation in June. The other 60% is spread out. Not all of them go on vacation in the summer at all, so really going to expect a lot of people to be missing and probably not a ton of first-time attenders and things like that.

So June is an excellent time for you to rest, take some time away. The best thing you can do for your preaching is to preach less. That's a fact. So, if you'll take a Sunday or two off in June, that would be great for your rest of your year. Relax. Take some time with God. Don't feel pressured.

I'm going to be doing that for sure. I've been pushing hard in our series coming out of Easter and in the series leading up to Easter because that was such a focal point, but I'll be taking some really good time off and getting the rest in there. I'll take a prayer retreat for one week and just spend some time with God, pray, reflect, and just try to hear his voice. So that's a big part. Probably the first component is to rest and take some time away.

A second component is, this is a great time to do discipleship on Sunday mornings, a great time to just really dig into topics. When I get back from my break, I'm going right into a giving series based off of the Book of Proverbs, and I'm going to be digging into that.

That's obviously not something you want to talk about at the first of the year or you want to be talking about in the fall when the boom of people getting back to school and getting back in church happens, because that's going to have all of your newcomers there who, they're not ready for that, anyways. They're not ready to make that kind of a commitment.

So talk to your summer folks. Those are the ones who are committed to you. Talk to them about giving and the importance of that. Yeah. That's what you can do, or any other kind of more deep topic, like prayer or some subject like that. Generosity is another good thing to do.

Give your team a break. You got different staff members or key volunteers. You want to not rest so heavily on them, and then when you get back to business, man, it's time to really push towards your fall, like what's happening in the fall. Fall is come to church time. It's in many cases, the biggest time of year. Maybe January with New Year's Resolutions might be a little bigger, but fall, right around Labor Day and following is right when you want to be ready.

So you're going to polish up your best series, get your best, most creative ideas out there, whatever new songs might fit or videos you're going to use or graphics that go with it. You really want to throw everything you've got at your fall series. So summer is a time to rest and get ready for the fall.

Hey Jerry. Talk about in getting ready for the fall, is it time to really start putting some pen to paper on plans for a big event in the fall?

Yeah, absolutely. It is time. If you want to do a friend day, a friend day is a fantastic, big event to do in the fall. It's one of our favorites. So you would start right now. Like I said, don't overlook the resting part, but when you kind of get your second wind, you want to start working on things with a team of people to get the creative ideas, "Hey, what could we do to get people together?"

One year on the anniversary of 9/11, we had a first responders day. So we had everybody come in and just really celebrated everyone who was a first responder, police departments, ambulance services, people who worked at the hospital, firefighters, everyone like that.

So we made it a team effort. We had the whole staff, all of our volunteers, small groups, to adopt a local outlet. So it might be a fire department. It might be a police station. It might be a hospital. But we just blessed their socks off. So we would go in and bring them gifts and food and snacks and things like that and give them an invite to the first responders day commemorating 9/11, and then we told them, "We're going to be recognizing you, so please let us know that you're here."

We gave them a way to register, and then we had these really cool medallions. We found out that first responders tend to be sort of sentimental a little bit, so firefighters will share patches. I've got a brother-in-law who's a firefighter, and if he goes to Birmingham, he might bring his patch [inaudible 00:05:55]. So they're kind of into that. So we made these medallions that were commemorative, and on one side it had the Daystar logo and it had some writing. They're about the size of a silver dollar, but thicker, and then on the other side, it had a message about the 9/11 thing.

So, you can do that with teachers appreciation day. We've done that, have a big day to appreciate teachers. Here in Alabama, there's never enough funding for schools. Probably true everywhere in the country, and so teachers will come out of pocket with certain things. We went and interviewed teachers and asked them, "Where do you most come out of pocket?" We found out that they were buying their own copier paper, believe it or not, and so we bought everybody a box of copier paper. Every teacher gets a box of copier paper, and then we gave out a lot of other things.

So I could talk all day about creative ideas, but sit down with your team. Get the creative voices and energetic people, because once you get an idea, you need the energy to make it happen. Sit down with those people sometime this summer. Put together a great idea in the fall.

Again, we're trying to give people an excuse to come to our church. So, that box of paper was an excuse to get teachers there. That medallion, an excuse to get first responders there, because we know what we want them to hear is the gospel, and we want them to feel the presence of God, experience worship and the hope of Jesus. So we'll do anything that our creativity and energy will help us do to get them there. Fall is a great time to launch a big event like that.

Yeah. One thing that I just want to point out about that. Those kind of events, Jerry, with first responders and teachers, inviting people to church can be stressful for people because they're using change in their pocket [inaudible 00:07:40] influence they've developed with people. It can be stressful.

Those kind of events actually flip that. The stress goes from, "It's stressful to invite," to being, "Oh, if I have a first responder Sunday and I've got somebody in my extended family or somebody that I know from somewhere else and I don't invite them, they might be offended that I didn't invite them."

Yeah, [crosstalk 00:08:03] flips the script. Yeah, yeah, and the because is huge. We've talked about that on webinars. People need a reason to invite people.

Hey, I should've said this at the top, but we've got a hard stop at two today, which is 1:00 Jerry's time.

Two eastern? Yeah.

Yeah. We're going to be done in 51 minutes. So, Jerry, we've got a few questions in here now. Do you want to start diving in and tackling them?

Yeah. Let's do that.

Okay. I think the first one is Elizabeth, but I could be wrong.

Hello. I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina, and we're just getting ready to dive into the program. We've had the introductory video. One of the things that I would like to know is effective ways to communicate what we're about to go into with the church. Are there some places where we can find [inaudible 00:08:55] from other churches that have been successful in packaging this in such a way to start to build that initial enthusiasm?

So what I would say about building enthusiasm is for you as a pastor to try to get ahead of everybody and take ownership of it yourself. Once you get out ahead of it, you're going to see that the teaching is very biblical, it's very motivational, very inspirational, and if you can get out ahead of it and you incorporate into your preaching, you incorporate it in the vision casting you're doing week in and week out and then build the momentum, get as many people there as you possibly can, and then the videos are going to do it for you.

I taught these lessons with your people in mind. I mean, just literally thinking about churches that were right where you are, putting their toes in the water, not really sure, "If this thing for me or not? Who's this guy on the screen?" So initially, I try to establish credibility, let people know who I am, where we've come from, what our story is. I say some bold things that are probably going to be a little bit more than you want for your church, and I do that by design so that you can walk up and say, "You know what? This is their church and that's good stuff for them, but we're going to walk that back just a little bit."

It's kind of like this. When I used to have a ... I directed a huge youth choir. We toured all around the country. We brought in this professional choir coach, and we couldn't sing a song that was written in the key of F because it was too high, or G, rather, because it was too high for us.

I said, "Well, what are we going to do about it? Are we going to take it down to F?" And he said, "No. We're going to take it up to A." If you know anything about music, that's a key higher. I said, "That's ridiculous." But he rehearsed the choir singing it in A for about 15 minutes, and then he took it back down to G, and everybody was like, "Man, this is easy. This is no problem at all," because they'd been stretching themselves.

In that same way, what I try to do on those teachings is stretch the heart of your people kind of beyond what might be comfortable, and then you're able to in your Q&A time or in your discussion time with your group after the video, you kind of pull it back and say, "Okay. Maybe we get there at some point, but here's what we're going to do right now. These are the steps we can take."

So it's designed to slowly build the momentum, we have placed on the front end. If there are 24 modules, we don't necessarily take module one is team one, module two is team two, module three, et cetera, but we put the modules in place to build the teams that are easiest to build and create the most momentum. So we call that low-hanging fruit, some things that you can do really easily, like big events and first impressions and the wild team, so teams like that that really will get you a lot of momentum upfront, and it's really been successful.

It sounds like a hyperbole to say this, but Richard can tell you, literally thousands of churches ... It's worked in thousands of churches now. So, I think we've got a good system that's going to work for you really well if you're at the front door. I probably answered more than you asked, but when you said you're just starting, I just kind of wanted to give you a ramp up of what it looks like when you start. You good?

Yeah, yeah. I was wondering, too, if there's just sample publicity materials that churches have out there as we're starting to communicate more broadly to the congregation what it is that we're embarking upon.

I don't think ... Richard ... I don't think I've ever heard that question. I don't think anybody's ever shared publicity materials. That'd just kind of be more I guess internal in terms of how you promote it.

That's funny because we literally have never had that question, and what I do know, and Jerry talks about this in different places, but everybody goes about this a little bit different. Some churches, they never mention the word 24toDouble, and then other churches are full throttle sitting down in front of the video with Jerry teaching them as well as their team at the same time. So, everybody kind of goes about it a different way. There's a boatload of content. That's for sure. If you stay on this call long enough, you'll hear some other people that are having success with it, so yeah.

Yeah. Some people call it Team 24. They kind of rebrand it, rename it for their community. I think really, Richard, as 24toDouble has matured and grown over the years, pastors are less likely to try to reteach this material. Early on, pastors were still, some of them, under the assumption that their members thought they knew everything, that they weren't drinking out of other fountains, but I think now pastors have kind of come to the realization, and the people are cool with that, that, "Hey, my pastor doesn't know everything, but he's going to connect us with some good resources that are going to help us get there."

So I think there's probably very few churches anymore that are not sitting down watching the videos together. There are some pastors who want to watch that, sort of rewrite it in his own language, and teach it to his people. I'm not saying that won't work. That certainly has worked for some churches, but I think that's making it harder than it has to be.

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. The pastors that are doing it where they're just watching it, I mean, it really is the easy button. You circumnavigate yourself and get right to putting people in volunteer ministry. The ability to do that, in my humble opinion, the future of church rests on our ability to do that, get more people involved building healthier churches from the inside out.

I didn't know you had a humble opinion, Richard. I've known you a long time.

You know what? Sometimes, Jerry, I just call it that, but it's really not. Very, very arrogant opinion.

I'm kidding.

The other thing, too, about that is that's a system, and systems constantly have to be updated. I mean, we're dealing with this in my church where we're having to go back and systems that used to work, they don't work anymore, because of the magnitude, the volume of people that need to be impacted by the system.

So, this ideology about being able to bring a group of people together and have them execute on a system is not something that's one and done. I mean, it's a skill that you have to develop, and now is the time, while we're still-

Well, and not to digress ... I know we have other questions. I don't want to digress too far, but this reminds me. I had an old country preacher I used to work for one time and he'd talk about how hard it is to pick up a watermelon seed, if anybody's ever tried to do that. He would say God is like a watermelon seed. You think you got him figured out and as soon as you squeeze it, it scoots away and you learn something else about God.

But this system is a little bit that way in that about the time you think you've got one team figured out and you've got all the right people in the right places and you want to move on, then it kind of squirts away and something changes. So it really is something that is holistic. It takes the attention of your whole church. I mean, you've got to focus on it. It's not really a plug and play program in that regard.

The theology, the system, man, it's all made up for you. The reason we want the system to be the easy button is because nothing else is easy but the system. You've got to manage it. You've got to man it. You've got to work it, and you've got to live it. It has to be your vision and your philosophy and your heartbeat. So, it is easy, but it's not easy. It's easy to figure it out, but it's not easy to implement it. It takes a lot of dedication, a lot of leadership.

One of the things I love about it is it demands that the leaders get better. It makes the pastor get more creative and exercise his leadership skills and all the people closest to him.

That's awesome. Hey, tell us your first name again, because I have you down as Elizabeth Jenkins, and I don't think you're an Elizabeth.

Well, that's my wife, Elizabeth Jenks. This is Greg Jenks.

Oh, Jenks. Okay. Okay. Thanks, Greg. Thank you. Okay. Let's move to the next question here. I think this is Aaron, but I could be wrong.

That's right. This is Aaron Kirkpatrick from Burrowsville, Oklahoma. How are you guys doing today?


Great, Aaron. Good to talk to you.

Hi. Okay. So I've got a couple questions on the Pastor's Breakfast, and one more broad question. I'll start with the other question first, because I think it may be a faster one to answer.

Jerry, in a lot of training videos, you guys talk about your dream team. You've got the application and all that and the 24toDouble stuff. What exactly, though, is ... I've not been able to figure out, what is the dream team exactly? Is that your fivefold leadership folks?

No. Yeah. That's a good question. Sometimes you get so deep into the nomenclature, you forget to ramp people into it, but the dream team is everybody who volunteers in the church. Whether you're teaching a class or leading a small group on a weekday, that's all the dream team.

So, we said essentially this. We have a dream to change our community, and that's our mission statement, "Community transformation through the love and power of Jesus." That's our dream, and it can't be done without a team. Nobody can do it by themselves, so you're the dream team. If you serve, you [inaudible 00:18:56] on the priest team, if you make lattes in the coffee shop, anywhere, you're on the dream team. So that's what we call the dream team.

Okay. Very cool. Okay, so it's your volunteers. Got it. Okay, a couple questions about Pastor's Breakfast, then. One of them is, to get that started for the first time, we got a lot of excitement going on around that concept right now, but I'm not sure exactly what ... I'm having trouble creating a complete mental checklist of what all will need to be pulled together to pull that off successful.

So that's the first question there, and I'm curious, how long do they normally take? We got a 45 minute bible class time window. I'm trying to figure out if there's any way in the world to do everything we want to, especially with the spiritual gifts assessment [inaudible 00:19:40].

Yeah. So those are all good questions. 45 minutes is fine. So a couple things to say about that is, think on ramp. That's the word you're looking for. We want to on ramp them. We know where they are. They're at the front door. That's all we can say. They came through the front door, and so where do we want them to be?

Pastor's Breakfast is the on ramp to get them from the front door to where we want them to be. So we want them to know their gifts. We want them to serve on the dream team or volunteer, cool, whatever you call that. Do you want to be a member through this or do you want that to be separately? Do you want them in a small group? So ask yourself those questions, and then make Pastor's Breakfast be the on ramp to that.

So, we've gone through several iterations of Pastor's Breakfast, and the way we do it now is not exactly the way we did it when I was first teaching this material. It may not be the same next year. We're just kind of constantly trying to see where we feel like people are, but right now, we say our on ramp, our Pastor's Breakfast is about connection. So we want people to connect.

So, the first thing we want to do is on ramp them into ... We're a church of small groups. I think last semester, we had about 78% of our congregation in small groups. Our Sunday morning attendance, 78% of that was in small groups through the week. It's a major thing for us. We feel like that makes people sticky, makes them hang around.

So, we want Pastor's Breakfast to put people into small groups. So, what we do is our Pastor's Breakfast is an on ramp to what we call a connect group. Pastor's Breakfast is just a one week event. You go right out of Pastor's Breakfast into connect group. That's your first small group. Most of our small groups, we have a three semester system, and so in the beginning of the year, in the winter semester, it's 13 weeks. In the summer semester, it's only 8 weeks, and then again in the fall, it's 13 weeks again. So there's major breaks between semesters.

The connect group never breaks because you got to have Pastor's Breakfast every Sunday because you've got guests coming in every Sunday, and the very next Sunday after a guest comes, you've got to have Pastor's Breakfast for them. Well, if we want people to on ramp into small groups the very next week after Pastor's Breakfast, then we've got to have that connect group every week.

So if you've heard my training, you've heard me talk about that the average church assimilates 8 to 10% of their first time attenders, but if you get people to come back two weeks in a row, you're more like 50%, and if they come back three weeks in a row, they're like 75 or 80% chance.

So here's what we do. Your first week you came, we want you back next Sunday for Pastor's Breakfast. Okay? You came back week two for Pastor's Breakfast, hey, you've got to come back. Now you're eligible for the connect group. Be back for the connect group. So now I've got you three weeks in a row.

Now, in our connect group, that's where we actually do the spiritual gift assessment, because we don't quite have time to get it all done at Pastor's Breakfast. I'm talking fast. So, you see, you've got to kind of ask yourself, "Where do we want the ramp to go? Since Pastor's Breakfast is the on ramp, where do we want it to go?" Just put together a cohesive plan to get them there.

Right. I spent quite a bit of time yesterday actually flow charting out kind of where people have come in, how they get there and where we want them to go, so I've just done that work. But I think my thought had been that our next step was trying to get them with a spiritual gift assessment connected somewhere to serve. Do you find it more successful to get them connected to a small group? Because that's been kind of on down the road for my roadmap for this thing.

Yeah. Well, you're right where we were actually when we first started Pastor's Breakfast. We wanted them immediately to serve on a team. We want that, too, but basically we kind of came to the conclusion that there's too much on the on ramp to get it done in one ... We're the same as you, about an hour, maybe less. It's too much to get it all done in that time, so we said, "Instead of feeling like we're force feeding them and just shoving everything at them in one hour, let's make it more connectivity. Let's have more relational stuff go down. Let's be more inspirational, and let's try to sell them on this connect group, and the connect group will do the other things for them." So that's where we're-

Is there anywhere that you do or that you could share kind of just a template for how you guys format both the Pastor's Breakfast and that connect group, which sounds like just another name for an intentional bible class. I'd love to see how you guys template that out.

It is. Actually, the connect group, every week when I do my sermon notes and we put them in the worship guide, there are what we call going deeper questions. So, it's just discussion questions. So, the connect group, all they do is answer those questions and talk about last week's sermon. Again, it says the same thing to the person who came to the connect group, "Oh, I got to go back next Sunday to the sermon so that I can be in the connect group and answer the questions."

But yeah, I can I can do that. Richard, if you would have Jessica maybe shoot me an email of everything that anybody asks for on this call, I'll get my team to put it back together and you can post it somewhere online, or Richard, how do we get that to them?

Yeah. Just email us at support@24todouble.com and we'll send you what we got.

Cool. Thank you.

I don't think Jessica's on the call today, so yeah.

Okay. I don't think you have this, Richard, because this is brand new for us, so you may forward that to me and I'll get that to you.

Yeah, and if you don't mind, when you send the email, just reference the call and that Jerry said what he said, to email Jerry to get it, and we'll pass that along. I try to stay out of the inbox. So yeah, [inaudible 00:26:03]. The inbox is the junk mail of any kind of business or ministry, or it's the junk drawer. So it's like I get there and totally forget what my life's about. [crosstalk 00:26:15] email. Yeah. Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for calling.

Let's keep moving, Jerry. Sorry to [crosstalk 00:26:23]. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

No. I was going to say, I think you and I share the same assessment that after we get done talking to people, we dump our cache and start over with a fresh memory. So if they don't email us, we don't remember what we said we were going to do.

Well, I mean, it's an important thing I think to figure out what your triggers are. I'll notice for me, sometimes I'll get in the inbox in the morning and it'll be lunchtime. I'm like, "I've not done a single productive thing today yet except respond," and we've got a team to respond that are better at responding than I am.

So okay. I think this is a wireless caller. If you heard the prompt, just tell us your name and your church name and fire away.

Yes. My name is Gary Edwards. I'm at Crosswalk Community Church of the Nazarene in Westland, Michigan. This is my first time on the call, Q&A.


So it's going to be a little more boggled here, so if you'll just bear with me.


I'm in the process of trying to get us started in this. I believe it's a workable thing, so as far as my being onboard, that's not an issue. So I'm working on it with the team. We're a small church. We average around 38 right now, and that's been to attrition and disease and all that typical stuff for a small church. We're an older church, and also, our mission statement has been over the past, "Reach and grow people for Jesus." I think that's just too broad, so I want to narrow it down and say, "Reach one more and grow one more for Jesus." Is that reasonable?

Yeah, sure. I think your keywords in there are reach and grow. So you want to have your words to be actionable, and so reach. When we look at the word reach, how do we reach? That speaks of our outreach team, which we talk a lot about in 24toDouble, and then grow, how do we grow. That would make me think that you have small groups or Sunday school type groups that we're very intentional about in reaching and growing.

You just want to look at it from an outsider's point-of-view. Of course, I'm an outsider. Well, I'm sort of an outsider, because I'm a Christian. I'm a believer and I'm a pastor, so that sort of makes me not an outsider. I'm outside of your church, but I'm outside enough to tell you a little feedback, which says that tells me that you're going to be evangelistic and you're going to be making disciples. So if that's what you're meaning to say, then I think you're saying what you're trying to say.

Okay. And then also, again, like I said, and I don't mean to keep negative here, but we are a small congregation. So right now, what I perceive as our energy spot is with our children and with our middle schoolers. So we don't have any high schoolers. And so, that's where I'm going to be focusing the energy of the team so that we can at least be excellent in that area.

So I just wondered if there was things ... I mean, we're looking at maybe for the fall, doing a fall festival and maybe somehow tying it in. I don't know if it's too confusing to tie that in with a friend day, have the fall festival and use that as almost an on ramp for people to come back the next day for a friend day.

Let me give you a couple ideas about that. I love that you're focusing on children and students. The only problem with that is sometimes they're out of mind, out of sight. So, what if we do this? What if we take those middle schoolers that you have and you put them on the first impressions team? We talk a lot about that, that that's one of the low-hanging fruits that you can do. You can really get people involved quickly in the front door ministry and people really notice it. They get excited and enthused about it.

Our research ... We didn't do this research, but research that we read indicates that the most welcoming person on the front door of a church is a middle school girl. So you're already there, man. That's a natural thing. Just get those middle school boys and girls out there and let them welcome ... What are you laughing at, Richard? That's what the research says.

I'm laughing at the fact that a middle school girl gave birth to our savior-

There you go.

... and no one put him at the front door of the church. That's just funny. I don't know why that was funny to me. It just is.

All right. Let me say this other thing, too, about the fall festival. So why couldn't you make the fall festival on Sunday? That way, they're already there and you don't have to get them to come back on Sunday. Just have it on Sunday, like at 1:00. So you have your church service. If you've got inflatables or whatever you've got, you've got them all laying there and you plug them up, you get started, you fire up the grill, whatever. Maybe your men's group gets out there early on the grill, but you just have it on Sunday.

Now, here's what you'll find. This is good input for everybody on the call. If you move your special events to Sunday, the special event attendance will go down, all right? That's just a fact. But the retention will go up. How do I know it's going to go up? Because they're already there. You're 100% conversion. I guess I would say your conversion rate, conversation rate being not how many people got saved, but the number of people that you converted from the special event to a church service, well, you're at 100% because it was on Sunday. Your retention rate, retention rate being how many did we keep, that's obviously also going to be much higher because your conversion rate is much higher. So, that would be my suggestion about the fall event is try to have it on Sunday.

Okay. Well, thank you so much. That is very helpful. I'm looking forward to more Q&As. I'm going to go back and listen to the others that are on the podcast.


Well, great, man. Welcome aboard.

Hey Jerry, one thing just to note on Gary's first question about the vision part of it. I love the way that his vision has taken shape because it's one of those things that people in the church can adopt it, meaning they can take ... My church is leading people in a growing relationship with Jesus Christ, the ability for me to be able to say, "Hey, that's my life purpose, too, is to lead people in a growing relationship with Jesus Christ," because the reality is, 9 and a half out of every 10 people in your church don't have a written statement of their life's purpose. I think having one that's crafted in such a way that they can adopt it is just a big deal.

And with it being a smaller church, really, when you change that to say, "Just to reach one more," I can personally, just me, I can personally fulfill our church's mission statement. That's the way I would preach it. If I were pastoring that church, that's how I would say, "Man, you don't wait for us to have a big record Easter attendance. You can right this week, before I see you next Sunday, you can fulfill this mission statement."

Yeah. That's a big deal, and then give examples of people that are doing it.

Mm-hmm (affirmative).


I'm getting pumped up. I'm going to end up changing my mission statement [crosstalk 00:34:10].

I know. I'm about to do a victory lap around the office here. Okay, next question.

Hey, this is Phil Ramsey. I'm in Canyon Lake, California. Quick question. We're a smaller church, about 50, and the question I have is on the breakfast with the pastor. What's your suggestion on doing that when you don't have ... We don't have visitors every Sunday, so give me an idea of how to modify that or something.

Yeah. So I'm going to skip the whole widow's empty barrel, keep digging in there and keep believing. That is a component of this. Now, that is, that I'm going to put it up there and I'm going to trust God that he's sending these people, and when I make room for them, they're going to come. That is an important part of this, but I get that reality, too, that, "Hey, here we are. We've got a table set up. We've got volunteers ready," and nobody's there.

So, here's what I would suggest. Since we want to on ramp people ... That's what Pastor's Breakfast is. It's an on ramp. There are many people in your church right now that are not on ramped. So, when you first roll it out, I would let the church know-

Well, we've done it. Not to interrupt, but we've done this. We did donuts with the pastor because it was simpler and we're smaller. We do donuts every Sunday, anyway. So, we had a separate room. We did donuts with the pastor. We had about eight visitors. We have retained some of those from that. So say if you have a visitor and you say, "Come back next week. We're having breakfast with the pastor," and just plan on it the next week?

Yeah. I mean, I would tell my team, "Hey, we're going to do this every week. We're [inaudible 00:36:05] for every week, but obviously, hey, there are going to be some weeks when we don't have it." So if you do really good followup and you do the phone calls, the pastor's wife or whoever else you choose, is making the phone calls, then you've got an idea of who you're expecting to be there in a smaller church. In a larger church like mine, you don't know if there's going to be 8 people or 80 people.

So, it's a little bit tougher, but in a smaller church like that, I mean, you don't have to ... It sounds like you're doing donuts or something simple, so it's not a huge waste. Nobody's in there slaving over homemade breakfast or anything like that, so you can just kind of pull the plug on it.

Well, still, we could run by Panera Bread that morning and get a few of those little ... I don't know. They're like a little egg souffle thing, but we can warm those up, but it's simple.

Yeah. What we did is we put some waffle irons in a room, and so we've got batter. We got batter there every time, and people just make little waffles. That's [crosstalk 00:37:04].

Oh, that's a good idea. Oh yeah.

And listen. Every week, we talk about it from the platform. We invite people, "If you've never been to Pastor's Breakfast, we want you there." So we're doing a push pull thing. So if you fill out a first time attender card, we're going to call you and we're going to pull you, okay? We're pulling you because we know you're a first time attender, but at the same time, we know there are a bunch of people who are in our church and never went through it, so we're pushing them from the platform. As you keep doing this, you might not get a response from a visitor this week, but you might get somebody that was already in the house and has been there six months, and they show up.

Great. Good stuff.


Yeah. Thanks.

Thanks for calling.

How many donuts do you have to buy for there to be donuts left over? Seems like that would be a lot of donuts.

It would be a lot of donuts because we have an active student ministry, and they know where the stash is.

I could take down about 20 myself. Okay. We're going to keep moving. We got 21 minutes. All right. Say your first name and your church name and then fire away.

Yeah. My name is Jerry and our church is Celebrate One in Three Rivers, Michigan. Hey, my question is this. We did our first month last month and actually, we showed the introduction video and the number one module. It was great. We discovered we really need to change our name and remodify our mission statement, but going into the laity one, my question ... We had probably a group of 12 individuals sit in on it and it was very healthy and good and unifying. When do you begin to implement the personality, the gift test, one? Would implementing it with this small group be something to do as far as just giving starter fluid going?

Absolutely, it would. So to answer that question, when do we want to start implementing gift testing, you want to do that as soon as you build your first team, which is pretty early on because you're going to start building first impressions team, big events team, things like that.

So basically, you're going to sit around the room after watching a module and you're going to talk with your group and say, "Okay. We just watched the big event component. Are we ready? Can we do the big event component now?" Ideally, you go 24 straight months, you do everything within that month, but very, very, very few churches will be able to do that.

So, as you are building your volunteer base and you're getting enough people, you want to put those teams in place. You will stretch the core. I keep calling the coalition of the willing. You've got this group of people that are willing, and they may be serving on first impressions as well as the outreach team and the big event team. So they're doing several things, but you don't want to stretch them too far. But you clearly need to know what their spiritual gifts are so that they are in the right seat on the bus. So if they're not administratively gifted, then they shouldn't be administrating or leading the team.

Usually, the prophetically gifted people, they're the most passionate, they're the most vocal. They end up being in leadership, but they're not really equipped to organize a team. So, you want to, as soon as you put your first team together ... Actually, you can't put them together until you know what their spiritual gifts are.

Now, don't make the mistake of gift testing the entire church and you don't know where they're going to go and what you're going to do with that. A lot of churches have made that mistake. I made that mistake with my church when I first put this thing together, so don't do that.

Hang on one second. Sorry, Jerry that's calling in. I had to mute you because you had [inaudible 00:41:12]. I didn't know what was going on.

That's fine.

Did you have a followup question?

Yeah. Just in that, too, we already got an usher group going on, and actually when we first got the material from you guys, I kind of jumped ahead and looked because at that same very moment, we were redoing our ushers. It's pretty much fallen in line with the gift test. Do you think that's a good idea to give that usher group of about 12 different men, and a mix of women, too, the gift test now even though they're already kind of down the road?

No, I think that's fine. I mean, again, you want to put them in the right seats on the bus. However, don't overlook the why of this. Here's a big pitfall a lot of pastors make in this, is early on, you understand the vision of this. You get it in your heart. You understand the why, like, why are we doing this, and then it's just, what are we doing. This team, this gift, this chart, this structure, this process, and it's what, what, what, what, what. So then, they go out and they go to an usher team that has never heard the vision of why we're doing this, and you throw what to do. You're a prophet and you're an administrator and you're a mercy person, and they don't even understand why that's important.

So, here's what you have to do. Get them to the training as much as you can, and even when you can't get them to the training, you make sure that you are filling their tank with vision of why we're doing this so that they're not just confused and frustrated with all these changes that they don't understand why we're making these changes.

Right on. Hey, on a name change, because we realized we needed to change our name, and it's just been evident for over a year. We're like a six year old church, maybe 125 people on a Sunday. We basically have a name and we have realized how our mission statement, whatever, purpose statement, just needed to be changing now. Is a month too soon to change a name if the elders have gotten onboard with it and other teams and groups, or do you say take five months before you change your name type of thing? Can you just speak to that?

I would take a lot of time, because think about it like this. The more people the change impacts, the longer it takes to do it well. So the change of a name impacts everybody in the church and everybody in the community that you want to reach.

So, if I'm changing the name, man, I want to make it a big vision thing. I want to preach sermons around it, a sermon series. You're clearly not going to pick a name without having a biblical reason behind it, so I'm going to preach a four week sermon series on it. I'm going to have a set day, maybe a grand reopening of our church as X church, whatever it's called.

Again, what we're doing, we're giving people an excuse to get excited and an excuse to invite someone to be there. "Hey man, we're having a grand reopening of our church. We're going to have cake and celebration and reception and special music. We're going to unveil this new name, a new logo. We're going to show you what the brand new brand," because you're not just changing your name. You're changing your brand. Brand is who the community thinks you are.

So, I would take some time and I would ... You can decide in a month in your leadership structure, but you can't really put together an effective rollout. I mean, listen, you can change the name and not split your church, but that's not effective. When I say effective, I'm talking about get the most bang for this big change. It's a courageous thing to change the name of your church. You want to get everything out of it that you can.

I didn't think about it that way. I appreciate it.

Yeah. Make sure, too, Jerry, that you're thinking about the legal side of it, as well, because [crosstalk 00:45:22] everything down to, if you're doing online giving, everything down to what somebody's statement is going to say, like on their credit card statement if you're doing monthly giving, what that's going to say. It doesn't make a difference for the people that are there now, but the people that show up to your church a year from now, if it still says old church name on your statements, what you'll have is you'll have people bailing out of their monthly commitment to give in an automated fashion.

Stuff like that on your nonprofit status, make sure you know what you're doing about it. Are you going to switch the name and have a new 501C3, which means you're going to have to get a new EIN and a new checking account? There's a lot of ripple effect stuff that you need to think about practically from just the administrative business side of a name change. There's easier ways to do it and harder ways to do it. I would recommend the easier way.

Yeah. We just started check listing all the things we have to go through to reference that. Do you guys got any sermons online where you kind of vision cast a name change or something like this, a re-grand opening, to maybe just glean from or get inspired by?

I don't know. I did change the name of my church many years ago, but it was before we were doing ... I made that change probably 16 years ago. We weren't broadcasting online at that time, so I don't think I have anything like that. I do preach sermons about who we are, vision casting sermons, who is Daystar, what are we about. I do those regularly, so that is something I could show you, how that sermon series looks like, but I don't have something specifically about a name change.

Okay. [crosstalk 00:47:13]

I just Googled it. There's plenty out there on it.

Okay, good.

Everything from sermons to audio. Sermon Central, they've got a whole category. I put it in there. It was the first thing that came up and I clicked on it and there's a boatload of messages on it.

In the search bar, what did you type in?

Let me look and see. Church name change sermons.

[crosstalk 00:47:45] Jerry.

Yeah. I'm going to go [inaudible 00:47:54].

Hey Jerry, you're dropping in and out for a second there [crosstalk 00:47:57].

Yeah, I'm sorry. My Bluetooth disconnected for a minute, but I'm going to say if it's on Sermon Central, it's probably terrible. Am I allowed to say that on here?

[crosstalk 00:48:09] public.

I'm afraid you were going to say, "Hey, I'm a contract with them right now."

No, no, no. I started Sermon Central.

But it's terrible. So find something else if you're going to get some help from somebody. [crosstalk 00:48:24] something.

Yeah. Listen. Anything you want to preach on today, there is no shortage of podcasts. I mean, you can find anything that you want to do. This is a very common thing, so I don't think you're going to have a problem at all.


So talking about it is a good thing, I mean, because last week ... Well, actually two weeks ago, I just mentioned, like, "Hey, we're looking to change our name." It really came across very well, as well. Do you suggest, like, "Hey, if you guys have any suggestions, give me a pass it in," type of thing, or-

Well, rather than that, because you'll just get the weirdest, random thing and everybody thinks theirs is awesome so you're going to disappoint everybody that way, so rather than that, I would call them together and have conversations about, "Who is our church? What do you love about our church?" That way, you're more abstract. So, once you tell me what you love about our church, I can tell you how our name exemplifies that.

So our church name is Daystar Church. We're a very encouraging church. We're an uplifting church. It's really easy for me to say, just the name says day, Daystar. It's a new day. So, you're a preacher. You'll be able to take their sort of theoretical idea and tell them how their idea produced the name you've already decided to call it, you hear what I'm saying?


So that generates more buy-in. Listen, someone may tell you something that blows your mind and you change your mind because of it. But I wouldn't ask for just suggestions. I would ask questions that are open-ended, like, "Give me an idea. Give me what you love most about our church. If you could break off a piece of our church and give it to a lost person in your neighborhood, what part of our church do you want them to have?"

So those are great conversations, anyways. It just builds people's faith and makes them love their church more, but then it gives you an opportunity to take their ideas and fashion it around the name you want to use.

I think studying the demographic kind of helped us, too, where we've gotten to reference the name. That was real helpful, what you guys said.

Yeah. Have you read Purpose-Driven Church by Rick Warren where he talks about-

Saddleback Sam? Is that in that one?

Saddleback Sam. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Would you call Daystar Danny [crosstalk 00:51:03].

Yeah. Daystar Danny, that's right.

Yeah. We're Three Rivers Tim, so we're realizing. That really helped a lot. I don't want to over take time here, but you guys pulled the covers off, pulled the sheets back on [inaudible 00:51:19] just describing exactly where we were. This is such a good fit for us. I want to say thank you guys for putting this out there.

Yeah, man. Absolutely. So is your community Three Rivers or your name of your church Three Rivers?

Actually, the name of our church is Celebrate One, which always gets fumbled, Celebration Church, Celebrate Church, you know what. We do a Celebrate Recovery in the church, and people over-identify the name. We meant celebrate Jesus. So our name has really just been getting in the way. It's never just caught right, and our logo just ... et cetera. So that was just a good, like, "Thank you Jesus for just confirming what we need to do." It really was.

Yeah. Good. Good. I pray you have a good process and get a lot of momentum out of this change.

Thank you.

Yep. Thanks so much, Jerry. All right, last question here. Jerry, we got just a few minutes.

Yes, hi. This is Pastor [inaudible 00:52:25] from California. First of all, I want to thank you guys for this opportunity. It's been amazing, and I just discovered 24toDouble maybe a couple of weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago.


I did meet with my team already. Our church is 16 years old. The first 15 years was Spanish, only Spanish. We went bilingual last year, so we've been bilingual this year for one year. When we went bilingual, we changed the name. Now it's Legacy Church. It's been amazing, but I really thank God for this opportunity because it's really helping us develop more.

So anyway, we have team meetings now. I'm on my third one next week. We've done the team building and staff meetings, and it's been amazing. So, I'm working with Wednesday services. Well, this is my question. How would I work on my Wednesday service assistance more to increase the assistance on Wednesdays? Though Sundays has been amazing, we have great services, but Wednesdays, we've always been having kind of a stuck struggle there. So I don't know if there's any recommendations on this. That's one. And then the second one, am I able to adapt this system in my Mexico churches or Latin America?

Yeah. That's a great question. So before I can tell you how to make the Wednesday service bigger, I need to know why you need a Wednesday service. So tell me that.

Yeah. See, again, those are questions that I've been asking myself. I guess it was just a pattern of something that we learned. I'm a PKMK, and that's just a pattern that we've seen for many years growing up in church. The church is about 180 people, but it's been stuck for a while. Wednesdays, I really don't see too much production as far as being effective and productive, just having another service, so that's kind of my question. What would I need to do-



A couple ideas there are ... We don't have a Wednesday service at Daystar. We gave it up in lieu of small groups. We knew we couldn't get people to do everything. If we could get them to come to one Sunday service and one small group, we felt like that was better than coming to another service on Wednesday night. So we were having hundreds of people out on Wednesday night, and we canceled it. It wasn't a quick, knee jerk reaction, but a slow process where we shared why we were going to do it and we moved to more of a small group structure.

Now, there are a lot of churches who are being very successful in a mid-week experience, but my suggestion is, it needs to be different than the Sunday experience, because why do that again?

So if there's some component ... I watched a church I oversee last night. I watched their online service. They had a worship night, and they brought in a youth choir, a children's choir, the adult choir, and it was just a big, special, different kind of event. They don't do it every week. They do it like once a month. Then the other weeks, there are student events. There are children's events or activities, small groups and so forth, and then there are adult groups that are going on weekly.

So I think you do have to back away and just re-ask the question of why we're doing it, and what's happening right now is major changes are happening to the traditional system, and some of them, the people that are most successful are the ones who are making the changes proactively. In other words, they're thinking through why we want to do what we want to do and they're making the change before they have to make the change. The unsuccessful ones are the ones that are waiting until the old system crashes and burns, and then they try to pick up the broken pieces.

So I would have a lot of prayer internally about what we want to do next and then a lot of discussions about why we want to do what we're doing. If we want to keep doing a Wednesday service, let's make it appealing. Let's get people an excuse to be there.

Okay. Thank you so much. Got it.

So, to the question about Mexico, I don't know. Richard, can you answer that better than me? Richard, did you get that question about using 24toDouble in Mexican churches?

I did. Yeah. I was muted. I was chatting away. Yeah. The line of demarcation that we've always had is if it's one P&L. It's one membership for 24toDouble. As far as the Spanish version of it, obviously we don't have it translated into Spanish, so your team would need to be bilingual to be able to do that.

We've had churches that have done that. In fact, I think we're up to 26 countries now where 24toDouble is being taught. So, it's definitely a viable way to do that. So, one P&L, one membership. It's pretty simple.

Okay. Thank you guys so much.

Hey, and somebody else just jumped into the queue. I am so sorry, but we do have to cut it off right at the hour today. So if you'll email us, we'll do our dead level best to answer your question, okay? Jerry, thanks so much for being on today.

Hey, thanks for your time, ladies and gentlemen. We're glad to be with you, and we'll be back next month to talk to you again.

Thanks so much. Bye-bye.


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